Expansion Update

Izaak wrote:

In exchange for alienating those players, you get a few players that couldn't be bothered to buy cards when they were available that for some reason think they can win tournaments when they can proxy 15 Villeins and 5 Enkil Cogs.

yeah, you'd think those people who weren't playing VTES a few years ago would simply look into the future and buy their hobby cards in advance. how selfish of them.

The argument here is not "it's better for the game to allow proxies", because frankly, it's not. I would be detrimental even. The argument appear to be "waah waah cry cry I don't have the cards I want and I don't want to spend money to get them".

you have discovered the hidden conspiracy. everyone in this thread has been lying about their true motives, and secretly think exactly as you have said.

Izaak wrote:

The argument here is not "it's better for the game to allow proxies", because frankly, it's not. I would be detrimental even. The argument appear to be "waah waah cry cry I don't have the cards I want and I don't want to spend money to get them".

I don't need any more VtES cards at the moment.
I doubt I'll need any more in the future.
Unless something happens to my collection, that is.

My issues have always been with players that came into the game after we ran out of KoT, per example. Some of us care more about that than how much our own cards are worth.
So, to try to be as eloquent as you, "waah waah cry cry I don't have the number of players in VtES that satisfies me as an Organizer."

Brum wrote:

brandonsantacruz wrote:

Exactly. With the stroke of a pen proxies can be made legal. Similarly, they can be made illegal when/if some chooses to pick up the game and print it for money. I don't see how having proxies in between publishers devalues the game or the intellectual property, however you look at it.

Agreed 100%.

Disclaimer: I am totally against allowing for Proxies of cards that are still available in boosters.
There is one thing people didn't mention: that would make our Tournament Prizes completely worthless, therefore Tournaments less interesting.
We don't want that.

A question to all of you that claim that legalizing proxies (just during the time we don't have a publisher) would make it less likely to get a new publisher:

Shouldn't the number of active players be the most important factor to "sell" the game to a publisher?
If you think yes, why shouldn't we pass legislation that would include more players in our ranks?

If people agree that proxies should be legal in at least some VTES venues, that's something we could come to a more specific consensus on.

Some things to consider:
-Should they be allowed in casual play?
-Should they be allowed in limited games?
-Should they be allowed in some/all tournaments?
-Should the proxies be only from an approved site (so that they look good enough, are readable and can be slid into a sleeve well)?

Proxies could be allowed provisionally to see what effect that has (hopefully people would be kind enough to at least make appropriately sized PDFs or something of the most needed cards). It would be interesting to see how that does and go from there, IMO.

brandonsantacruz wrote:

Some things to consider:
-Should they be allowed in casual play?

This has nothing to do with the VEKN. What you do in non-VEKN situations is irrelevant to the VEKN.

If your playgroup didn't let you play with proxies in the past, I could see the reasoning. But if they don't let you play with proxies NOW, they're just acting like jerks.

Brum wrote:

Disclaimer: I am totally against allowing for Proxies of cards that are still available in boosters.

How would you determine what is not available in boosters?

Rhetorically speaking the easiest way would be to check if manufacturer still had the booster available. Wait! That boat sailed already...

Brum wrote:

My issues have always been with players that came into the game after we ran out of KoT, per example.

You can use proxies as much you like in casual play. I'd be willing to bet that vast majority (like all) new players are playing casual.

So nothing is preventing them from using proxies in casual play. Yet I assume you're not seeing the influx of new players even if they can use whatever card they want to (as proxies) in casual play and they basically don't need to invest a cent to the game.

Do you see this happening or is the argument regarding allowance of proxies due to new players just fundamentally flawed, eh?