A Debate Worth Having

Someone just mentioned today that he'd read Chris's post. I never saw it before. It's kind of funny that my deck should inspire Chris to build something like that deck because it (and Johannes version) are much different than mine. Quite possibly better, because I've never won much with mine outside of a couple of pickup games but I've had a hell of a lot of fun playing around it with - but they're completely different decks.

Mine is a 90-card deck sporting a half dozen Parthenons because it has 43 masters in it. It's anchored by Joroslav Pascek with Volker as the second guy in and 3 single copies of weenies fill out the crypt. I have no Embraces or 3rd Traditions and do nothing with Con Boons. My pool gain is Warzone Hunting Ground, 3 copies of The Rack, and some Tastes and Vessels. There's not enough minions to make Con Boons worth my while and I play no politics at all.

The philosophy of my Brujah Debate deck is to get 2 or 3 Brujah debates on the table ASAP - because it's just NO FUN sitting around with limp Brujah, right?!? You get some Brujah Debates on the table and:

1) You don't need too much else in the way of combat. Most of my combat cards are grapples. You have all the maneuver you need and if you see aggropoke or something you dislike, it can be maneuver away as easily as maneuver back. There's also the Tastes which keep you minions blooded up and sometimes even turn into pool gain (better than hunting!) with Vessels.

2) Without weenies running all over the board, you're not going to be taking many actions. But it's OK. When you play Brujah Debates, other people come to you. You just need to play enough Second Traditions to hold out your hands and catch the combat as it rains on you. That's how I figured out to throw 3 copies of The Rack in the deck. If opponents are going to take a run at my Brujah Debates, I don't really care if they choose to switch up and take a run at The Rack instead. It's all good. Just...don't...want...to...run...out...of...Second..>Traditions!!! And so Second Traditions are the second largest class of card in the deck. Jaroslav and a Second Tradition are three intercept. If you see opponents that play Forgotten Labyrinths, there's Guardian Angels - but if you run into a predator or prey with endless stealth, the deck will usually lose.

3) My deck's main two ways of winning are Smiling Jack and Dragonbound. I used to have a couple Camera Phones for the weenies. I got attacked so much I never used them. So I swapped them out for a couple more Second Traditions.

4) People are insane. Some people will NOT suffer a Brujah Debate to sit on the table, even if every one of their minions gets torped in the effor to ea one.

My own is deliberately disciplineless, uses the Gehenna Discipline Punishers (Veil of Darkness, Blood Weakens & Narrow Minds) and used to be a bleeder-votey-rusher but has since turned into a more focussed votey-rusher.

In its more recent form it runs
3x Anathema
3x Con Boon
3x Archon
4x Praxis - Misc
3x Brujah Justicar
8+x KRC
6x Target Vitals
4x Pulled Fangs
6x Brujah Debate
1x New Carthage
1x Carthage Remembered
10+x 2nd Trad
6x Baby Maker Actions (Mostly 3rd Trads but some Embraces)
2x Veil
2x Blood Weakens
1x Narrow Minds
1x Fortschritt

That's roughly it...

I think that it is useless to play brujah debate without frontal assault.
The only combat cards that is usefull are taste of vitae, thrown sewer lid and target vital, but card slots are expensive.
The blood management is difficult in this deck. You shouldn't have earthshock, a papillon can be a good idea.

If this deck is your pred you just bleed forward and win.

brandonsantacruz wrote:

If this deck is your pred you just bleed forward and win.

Which one? The deck Chris proposed or my deck?

In either case, with Debates on the table and Second Tradition intercept, you'd have to take some care your bleeders didn't get turned into grease spots, I'd think.

fredsct wrote:

brandonsantacruz wrote:

If this deck is your pred you just bleed forward and win.

Which one? The deck Chris proposed or my deck?

In either case, with Debates on the table and Second Tradition intercept, you'd have to take some care your bleeders didn't get turned into grease spots, I'd think.

Chris's deck is more weenie vote, where yours is more wall. Smiling jack backfired against you more than once because you did so little bleeding and voting, spent too much pool, and could be ignored. Without the weenies and babies the deck simply doesn't win.