Archetypes

brandonsantacruz wrote:

If you really like the different archetypes, play this:

Guide and Mentor
Master.
Put this card into play. A vampire you control may search your library for a master: archetype and move 1 blood from the bank and that card to himself or herself as a +1 stealth action that costs X pool where X is the number of copies of that card on minions you control (requirements and cost apply as normal).

They may be a reason for which this card is unused, like the fact that's not significantly better than an hunt while it cannot be done empty.

One master phase action and one or more minion action is just a bit too much.

brandonsantacruz wrote:

If you really like the different archetypes, play this:

Guide and Mentor
Master.
Put this card into play. A vampire you control may search your library for a master: archetype and move 1 blood from the bank and that card to himself or herself as a +1 stealth action that costs X pool where X is the number of copies of that card on minions you control (requirements and cost apply as normal).

Unfortunately, G&M isn't really a good card for the reasons Ohlmann describes, plus, it might as well be another copy of whatever Archetype you want.

How about:

Imprint
Master. Trifle.
Cost: X
X is the number of master: archetypes on your controlled vampires. Put this card into play. You may burn this card as a master phase action to search your library, ash heap, or hand for a master: archetype card and place it on a ready vampire you control (requirements and cost apply as normal).

You can play it without any ready minions. You thin your library when using its main ability. If you expect to play with multiple archetypes, you can find what you want. Perhaps your superstar vampire could be archetype flexible. Perhaps you want to toolbox between several different types.

In fact, I think that Archetypes are weak enough that this card could probably exist without a cost at all.

Or we could just hit Perfectionist with the NERF hammer and bring it down to saner levels...

Perfectionist
Master
Master: archetype.
Put this card on a vampire you control. Tap when this vampire announces an action to gain 1 blood after the action is resolved, only If the action is successful and no reaction cards are played. A vampire can have only one archetype.

By telegraphing your intent and tapping as a cost, a la Hospital Food, it becomes significantly weaker because there's not free reattempts triggered when you multiact. Gets rid of multiact passively gaining blood mindlessly. I don't find Guru or Capitalist as bothersome, especially since No Repeat Action for votes and bleeds limits the opportunity attempts for them to trigger.

Perfectionist is a problem because it left multiple tries available without any great effort. And it triggered from any action, not just aggressive ones, so even small ignored actions became opportunities. Granted it's a wake-and-watch sink, but how often do people need to cycle out excess wakes? I say tamp down that card and watch the other Archetypes bubble back up into circulation.

Azel wrote:

Or we could just hit Perfectionist with the NERF hammer and bring it down to saner levels...

Typically, errata (or even bans) are only issued if:

1) a card undermines the fundamentals of the game (e.g. Dramatic Upheaval)
2) a card is so enormously powerful that you can't stand up to it (e.g. Return to Innocence - first errata, then a ban)
3) a card is rancidly problematic because its wording is wrong beyond belief
4) a card turns the game into some weird parlour game (e.g. Madness of the Bard, certain 'questions about questions with binding consequences' problems with Monocle)


To my mind, Perfectionist is just in the 'really very good - justify why you aren't playing it if you can' category, where Govern the Unaligned, Kine Resources Contested, and Dreams of the Sphinx sit.


(And yes, if I had a time machine, I might make each of those cards a little less super-duper in order to free up some design space for alternatives. But I wouldn't issue errata now.)

Azel wrote:

I say tamp down that card and watch the other Archetypes bubble back up into circulation.

I don't think this is what would have happened - my guess is that, by nerfing Perfectionist, people would just stop using it and would fill their master selection with some other, useful master cards and not with useless/overcosted/too situational other archetypes.

True, the competition for masters is crazy competitive.

Then how about make Archetypes equip-able? Make it an equip action, all of them have a clause on the bottom that says, "A vampire may also take a +1 stealth action and untap to equip this Archetype."

Granted James also highlighted why errata is unlikely. But I never understood that. There's been enough text migration, errata and other silliness that tinkering with the new cards is such a minor thing. If it makes for a better game, or at least an interesting Storyline or variant, why not?