Uses for Jack of Both Sides

Non-existant user wrote:

Reyda wrote:

the only thing i find jack of both sides useful, is avoiding the oh so common direct intervention on your ivory bow or your heart of nitzcheatorz.
Play this, and let the fun begin

Vast Wealth, Alastor, Magic of the Smith do it so much better

-vast wealth : you don't get to choose what you equip. the risk is getting an equipment for which you don't have the requirements.
-alastor : you have to be justicar or inner circle. 33 crypt cards out of 1670. Talk about narrow possibilities. :/
-magic of the smith : ok, but, you need tha (207 vamps out of 1670). And it's impossible to do it if the equipment is already in your hand.

There is still this particular application of avoiding D.I. (and maybe having an additional stealth), that makes jack of both sides playable and interesting in some decks.

It's useful when you have action advantage through smaller minions.

Unless you're blocking, an action cost is still expended through Concealed or Pack Alpha when you rush or get blocked. Rushing to gear up hasn't been terribly fruitful IME, as you enter battle not optimized (as a lone Beretta would attest). And hoping to be blocked (furious bleeds of 1) suffers the same problem as bruise & bleed. Also taking a retainer/equip action to discard that copy on a block and Conceal/Alpha one out during combat requires two ret/eq copies in hand.

I would argue that equipment and retainers in general are not worth the action unless they are a) really good, b) negligible to gear up, or c) refund your action. It explains why .44, Raven, or Ivory Bow is awesome, WWS and Zip is excellent (I'd put Carrion Crows here, personally), and Baseball Bat is solid. As per the "Less is More" topic about extremely minimal errata to weaker cards, you could start each game with a global NRA PAC for all melee weapons and the game would be fine. High tier gear would still dominate, melee would still likely be 3rd or 4th tier combat, but they wouldn't be as much a bother.

(I should caveat that, as patron saint of Meat Hooks. The above argument holds unless you care about a long-term grind game with permanents. Permanents do shine in the end game as they save cards for continual combo pressure.)

Azel wrote:

(I should caveat that, as patron saint of Meat Hooks. The above argument holds unless you care about a long-term grind game with permanents. Permanents do shine in the end game as they save cards for continual combo pressure.)

You're right, but still it is far, far better to equip with a preternatural strength than a meat cleaver for the end game. Equipment tend to be too easy to destroy - mainly because top tier equipment like the Bowl or .44 are too powerful to be left unchecked.

I actually tried to play the Jack, using Lord Ephraim's special. Well, it didn't work at all. Still, take a look and any suggestions are very welcome. (note: the 19 eyes of Argus stand for "the whole reaction cards bundle")

Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 1 max: 6 average: 4

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4x Lord Ephraim Wainw 6 AUS THA for pre Tremere:5
3x Anarch Convert 1 Caitiff:0
2x Neighbor John 5 AUS dom for !Ventrue:4
1x Antonio d'Erlette 5 THA dom for pot !Tremere:4
1x Andre LeRoux 3 aus Toreador:5
1x Lectora 3 aus tha !Tremere:4


Library [90 cards]

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Action [18]
2x Anonymous Freight
4x Jack of Both Sides
8x Magic of the Smith
1x Rave
1x Rutor's Hand
2x Zip Line

Action Modifier [14]
1x Daring the Dawn
13x Freak Drive

Combat [9]
2x Armor of Vitality
2x Aura Reading
1x Skin of Steel
2x Soak
2x Target Vitals

Equipment [17]
1x .44 Magnum
1x Aaron's Feeding Razor
1x Ankara Citadel, Turkey, The
1x Bowl of Convergence
1x Codex of the Edenic Groundskeepers
1x Heart of Nizchetus
1x Ivory Bow
1x Kevlar Vest
2x Leather Jacket
1x Light Intensifying Goggles
1x Palatial Estate
1x Sargon Fragment, The
3x Saturday-Night Special
1x Sniper Rifle

Master [13]
1x Anarch Troublemaker
6x Ashur Tablets
2x Heidelberg Castle, Germany
1x Jake Washington (Hunter)
1x Pentex(TM) Subversion
2x Wash

Reaction [19]
19x Eyes of Argus

Oh man, this deck could really use a Nod or two...

TorranceCircle wrote:

Recently I've seen a Black Cat deck and a jennifer hunter deck posted to the site. I've been thinking that Jack of Both Sides seems to offer a similar effect as these two minions offer in their text. For example, if you use this card with baretta you can: 1) pay 1 blood instead of 1 pool 2) take the equip action at +2 stealth (helpful if you are playing a clan with low stealth).

I've not found Jack of Both Sides useful for pool-costing equipment. While the extra stealth can be helpful, exchanging 1 blood for 1 pool isn't very exciting, and there are better and more flexible ways of doing that, so the benefit just isn't worth the card space and opportunity cost.

On the other hand, I've had decent success with it with retainers or equipment that costs blood. Getting the Ankara Citadel or a Marijava Ghoul for only 1 blood is a much better deal, since it's a genuine cost reduction, and extra stealth seldom hurts, especially when using vampires without access to a strong stealth discipline.