Regarding unplayable or overpowered cards

Jeff wrote:

All other Master cards with a pool/blood component must be balanced against this one at some level as they are being designed.

I think you're wrong. Card are not designed against an etalon, like Ascendance could be, but against the existing card pool.

There is no absolute etalon for card design ; rather, cards, like currency or stocks, are evaluated compared to each other.

Ohlmann wrote:

I think you're wrong. Card are not designed against an etalon, like Ascendance could be, but against the existing card pool.

There is no absolute etalon for card design ; rather, cards, like currency or stocks, are evaluated compared to each other.

I know I am right. If you do not regularly go back to the fundamentals of the original game, you are doing something very wrong.

Sure, the card pool changes, but cards like Ascendance, Blood Doll, Lost in Crowds, Enhanced Senses, Threats, Undead Strength and Flash are crucial to understanding V:TES card balance.

Yeah, you do need to look back and compare.

Jeff wrote:

I know I am right. If you do not regularly go back to the fundamentals of the original game, you are doing something very wrong.

That kind of assurance is a red flag for me. When someone is that sure that he have the good way to balance thing, I have alway seen it followed by horribles failures.

Jeff wrote:

Yeah, you do need to look back and compare.

I do agree. Now, you balance to the existing card pool, not to some so-called standard. Ascendance is particulary bad about that : master are balanced to be significantly stronger than Ascendance.

It go both way, since bleed modifier aren't balanced to be as powerful as Conditioning, and lunge master aren't balanced to be as strong as Pentex (look at Blind spot for example)

Jeff wrote:

I know I am right. If you do not regularly go back to the fundamentals of the original game, you are doing something very wrong.

Ohlmann wrote:

That kind of assurance is a red flag for me. When someone is that sure that he have the good way to balance thing, I have alway seen it followed by horribles failures.

Design and then play test, of course. But knowing where to begin and making cards that aren't totally broken or wallpaper to begin with is half the battle.

I do agree. Now, you balance to the existing card pool, not to some so-called standard. Ascendance is particulary bad about that : master are balanced to be significantly stronger than Ascendance.

It go both way, since bleed modifier aren't balanced to be as powerful as Conditioning, and lunge master aren't balanced to be as strong as Pentex (look at Blind spot for example)

"significantly" is a matter of perception. Take a look at Ashur Tablets. It's basically Ascendance with some bonuses and drawbacks. No doubt in my mind that LSJ thought about Ascendance when designing Ashur Tablets.

Monastery of Shadows is obviously Elder Library plus Backways with a subtle change. We could go on and on about this or that card and its inspirations from previous sets.

But, any card which originated in Dark Sovereigns or Ancient Hearts is suspect. WotC design didn't do a good job then. That makes it even more important to look back at Jyhad/V:TES. Fundamental cards matter.