The Sharks - !Brujah

+2 Abbot
+1 Yawp Court (-1 Effective Management)

The Sabbat has good generic defensive options that your disciplines lack, so why not use them?

Ohlmann wrote:

People can let you enchant down a lot more easily than bleed for 3. As initimidating as combat can be, having to punch through all trash blocker (allies like Ponticulus for example) and all defense resilient to grapple (Obedience, mental maze) before gaining pool or accelerating is a major no.

(yes, +1 stealth undirected is easy to block, but still it is a lot easier to negociate for them to pass than direct bleed actions)

I just don't think the negotiation is necessary. Bleeds for 2 via Social Charm are quite easily let through by any Methuselah even if you are bounced to your grand-prey. You see that I suggest 8x Social Charm and only 6x Public Trust. If a Ponticulus shows up, then you have to fight through it anyway, so still keep bleeding.

I still maintain that bloat actions are only useful if you can multi-act to establish forward momentum or react to preserve the benefit of the bloat actions you just took. If the deck were adjusted as Jussi suggested, then I would agree a bit more, but purely using Enchant Kindred is the wrong strategy for this particular deck IMO.

Actually, I completely get the point of the deck.

Clearly not, as the description quite literally says it's designed to enchant down, and not that the deck is standard bruise/bleed with very minor crypt acceleration.

Bleeding for 2 or 3 and gaining pool is much more card efficient than taking actions that do not move the Edge and gain pool. Combat like this is threatening enough that the actions don't need +1 stealth to discourage blocks.

Bleeds get bounced and negotiated into "hands for 1" making you gain exactly nothing for your bleed and disallowing the playing of combat cards. Enchant goes around this. The only people eligable to block are people you want to hurt for trying so.

Gaining 2 pool (and 2 transfers) for free from superior Enchant is superior to gaining 1 pool (and maybe 1 transfer) for a bleed in the early game. People are looking at you and when you drop the Enchant they are going to be like "whew ok I get to keep my guy another turn". If someone feels lucky and blocks, you smash them. If you get to play 5 Enchants (which is not unrealistic with some crypt modifications) you get to play with 40 pool. Since you have wait for the table to go into the 3-player stage anyway, you don't really care if people die or become strong in the meantime - you have potence and soon 5 guys to deliver it.

Izaak wrote:

Clearly not, as the description quite literally says it's designed to enchant down, and not that the deck is standard bruise/bleed with very minor crypt acceleration.

I just disagree with the premise that Enchant Kindred is the right action for this deck to take considering the crypt design to use a heavy dose of PRE next to POT.

Bleeds get bounced and negotiated into "hands for 1" making you gain exactly nothing for your bleed and disallowing the playing of combat cards. Enchant goes around this. The only people eligable to block are people you want to hurt for trying so.

Gaining 2 pool (and 2 transfers) for free from superior Enchant is superior to gaining 1 pool (and maybe 1 transfer) for a bleed in the early game. People are looking at you and when you drop the Enchant they are going to be like "whew ok I get to keep my guy another turn". If someone feels lucky and blocks, you smash them. If you get to play 5 Enchants (which is not unrealistic with some crypt modifications) you get to play with 40 pool. Since you have wait for the table to go into the 3-player stage anyway, you don't really care if people die or become strong in the meantime - you have potence and soon 5 guys to deliver it.

It may be harder to convince your grandprey to take a bounced bleed for 2, but often it works. If your prey has so much bounce anyway, then you need to put pressure on them sooner than later. There are many rushes in this deck. Use them.

Again, it all goes back to what you think the best action choices are. I have played enough combat to know that I think every action needs to count. Bloating for 2, even perhaps 5 times in a game, is to me less effective than bleeding for 2 and gaining 5 pool in a game. I think the late game actions are what matters more for this deck. Social Charm at PRE always provides the side benefit. Public Trust at PRE (with this crypt and 4x Effective Management) almost always provides the side benefit. Enchant Kindred at PRE doesn't help you oust. This deck should get 4 minions out without any bloat and is likely to get 5 minions out depending on the table layout. I'd rather take 6 pool from an oust than from 3x Enchant Kindred.

Dorrinal wrote:

Here is another deck for comment! This deck is incredibly fun to play and has done very well in my limited experience. What do you think? How would you improve the deck?

Have you tested this with Street Cred in place of some/all of the Enchants?

Suoli wrote:

Have you tested this with Street Cred in place of some/all of the Enchants?

Interesting possibility. I haven't tried Street Cred personally, but perhaps I should...

Bleed for 2 with Social Charm. Prey bounces. Grand-prey wants to play nice with hands for 1. Say, I need to strike hands for 2. Torn Signpost at inferior Potence. Grapple (if needed to cycle). Strike h2 vs h1. End combat. Street Cred!

Much better than Enchant Kindred at PRE.