Bay and Howl

@Klaital:
I had 4 Delaying but the environment where i play is more bleed and less political, though i can add again one or two (probably 2 and reduce the marked territory to 4). IF (big if as always) it goes more or less as planned, i'm putting in play a minion each turn and i get about 15 pool i never spend, which is kept for the bleeds and other surprizes. The intercept is usually enough for my environment. The problem is to put pressure "soon", usually it doesn't, only when i have 4 or 5 minions, because the smallest need to hunt and the biggest can bleed (bleeds for one is anoying). Tribute to the Master give you and you still have to transfer and call to the crypt. B&H allows you to place directly on the vampire to bring up. I will consider removing the two last flesh of marble for other combat.

@Jeff:
For my playgroup, Marked Territory are a good update to the deck (it had Keep it Simple), also it's an action that i do and untap. The cameras are a good idea, but i ended up discarding them most of the times.

Thanks for your feedback.

I love the Gangrel Antitribu, but I've found they lack ousting power. They are one of the least effective toolbox-style clans.
That having been said, with focus, the swarm strategy can still work.

You need to decide between killer and combat and combat avoidance.
Celerity, Obfuscate and Protean are great at both avoiding combat & agg combat.

So the questions are...
1. When do you get into combat?
2. What happens when you get into combat?
3. What do you get out of it?

So make the decision.

Does your prey lose pool when you do it?
Does someone lose a vampire when you do it?

If combat happens and you're not getting anything out of it, why bother? You should only be getting into combat when you want to and like 1/3 of the deck is combat/low intercept that doesn't seem to accomplish anything.

Personally, I'd ditch the Leathery Hides and focus on things like computer hacking, leverage and Cloak/Veil stealth. Maybe all Form of Mist to end combat/continue.

Your vampires, like the clan itself, are all over the place.
I'd suggest sticking to a discipline spread and doubling up if necessary.
Why bother having 7 caps if you're only using one of their disciplines?

The beauty of a shared stealth swarm deck is that any of your vampires can bleed for like 3 - any time. I think the Camera Phones are slowing you down.

I understand your comments but !Gangrel are too unruly/undisciplined that it has been complicated to do a more or less competitive deck.

I wanted to make a deck of !Gangrel and make use of my 11 Bay and Howl (now 12) and i looked into card that could help. I tryed Black Hand tech, i tryed a political deck, i tryed combat (agro and cel)... not much success with either.

On this deck, out of these 16 vampires, 4 have inferior Obfuscate and 3 superior. I could find a few 7Cap or over with OBF but that wouldn't be a good solution. I could user PRO stealth, but that costs blood and i would have to had PATHs (more masters...). So stealth is not an option and if the smallest guys have a target on their heads (because they hunt alot to feed bigger ones), i better come up with a solution to keep them in game (prevention).

In this deck, 4 have ANI, 1 has ani, not much for intercept as its "cousins", so not much to turn too with their disciplines, so i tryed to used disciplineless cards or clan cards whenever possible. Also important, do not use too many cards that cost blood.

Any alternatives? I couldn's find any.

So i thought about doing something that would work more or less like a grinder, a little bit of combat, a little bit of intercept and bleed.

This having been said, to make use of Computer Hacking and Leverage with no stealth, not an option, took the cameras out because it was an action done not hunting.

I don't expect to win much with this deck, i justed wanted to understand others points of view and solutions.

Maybe you could switch out sonar with steadfastness. Some intercept and bleed reduction at superior. I have used this card and I feel it has worked out well.

Maybe you could also drop all leathery hide and go up to 10+ earthmeld, a few claws for agg damage surprise, a few more intercept cards (with Eyes of the beast + sonar + steadfastness you could have a surprising intercept ability), and keep the camera phones so after they have used all their blocks you can equip with the guys who were able to untap at superior protean earthmeld.

Those are are my thoughts. Bay and Howl is just a fun card, very thematic.

That's kinda what I'm saying.
Since the disciple spread is so wide, just pick either country gangrel or city gangrel. It's one of the reasons I prefer the group 2/3 !gangrel, but not everyone has them.

For a Bay and Howl deck, I would go with a lot of smaller vampires - of either country or city variety but not both.
Because Bay and Howl takes from a lot of vampires, it's better to have like five 2-caps than 1 Enkidu. Most people aren't going to block 5 2-3 caps hunting.

Animalism/Fortitude has tons of combat options and Celerity Obfuscate does too. Celerity/Obfuscate also has bleeds with stealth built in.
You could try something like Night Moves or Cat Burglary.
It doesn't seem like much, but 5 little guys bleeding for 1 at 1-6 built in stealth adds up.

I like Bay and Howl because it lets you put blood down on an uncontrolled vamp, which you can feed yourself.
Doubling up on vamps will generate pool gain for you.

Have you thought at all about trap combat?
Even a disciplineless 1 cap !gangrel can go forever on traps and leathery hides.

yesferatu wrote:

That's kinda what I'm saying.
Since the disciple spread is so wide, just pick either country gangrel or city gangrel. It's one of the reasons I prefer the group 2/3 !gangrel, but not everyone has them.

For a Bay and Howl deck, I would go with a lot of smaller vampires - of either country or city variety but not both.
Because Bay and Howl takes from a lot of vampires, it's better to have like five 2-caps than 1 Enkidu. Most people aren't going to block 5 2-3 caps hunting.

Animalism/Fortitude has tons of combat options and Celerity Obfuscate does too. Celerity/Obfuscate also has bleeds with stealth built in.
You could try something like Night Moves or Cat Burglary.
It doesn't seem like much, but 5 little guys bleeding for 1 at 1-6 built in stealth adds up.

I like Bay and Howl because it lets you put blood down on an uncontrolled vamp, which you can feed yourself.
Doubling up on vamps will generate pool gain for you.

Have you thought at all about trap combat?
Even a disciplineless 1 cap !gangrel can go forever on traps and leathery hides.

Im not sure how good leathery hide trap is. Namely, one agg or any envirnmental(i know, who plays animalism anymore ) stops the fun. But, country gangrel can do persitance trap stuff with crows. Not NEARLY as good as Gangrel with revel and ritual challange with trap and crows, but an idea. The big thing is having blood on minion to play bay and howl. So, weenies are good.
Other combat options include shadow feint with agg poke or stutter step agg poke. Target vitals with stutter step is also neat. But punch+tv, blur or pursuit into earth meld or form of mist is cool too...