Some Gangrel Card Ideas

ReverendRevolver wrote:

Protean needs +487ish strength and agg hands to make it meaningful.

You can fairly easily play a Target card these days, and access to Carrion Crows adds up. Agg-poke-bleed+Carrion Crows+Target Head/Vitals = 4 damage with ani/pro, 5 with ANI/pro. Note that if the action fails, you don't pay the cost - so you've just done that without a blood cost. It's not entirely shabby.

ReverendRevolver wrote:

what good has uncontrollable rage really done?

Not a great deal, having a cost of 2 blood that you pay whether you bleed or get blocked or anything else, and being far less versatile. The action version means you get the agg (or the +strength, if you go that route) and don't pay.

ReverendRevolver wrote:

Truth is adaptability is hard to obtan and SUCKS so the top one as an action modifier would be PERFECT to help gangrel of both stripes.

Gosh, it's almost like Protean is supposed to have lots of combat tools (S:CE, maneuvers, agg, presses, action continues), but can be hit for damage while it hits you. Flesh of Marble is good, but leaves a chink in your armour, as does Adaptabiilty.

Adaptability is the only thing protean has to not cry to ivory bow.

Yes, one less blood is hot for protean, but its fairly simple for agg to happen.

So, if ANOTHER protean card has agg hands, +2 or more strength would make it worhtwhile. If i want to burn a minion routinely, i dont want 4+ cards to br needed every time. Enkidu/Lazvernious/Hardestadt/Qwayayayayblah(with bundy) can get Preturnatural/Heroic might and then inflict mass hand agg, omce tooled up, with one card.

Im fine with gangrel getting any help, i just worry due to every protean card seeminly needing agg hands included.
Its like how Abo has reflexive frenzy cancel. But its obligatory agg hands imstead.....

ReverendRevolver wrote:

Adaptability is the only thing protean has to not cry to ivory bow.

a) So what? "Being able to defeat Ivory Bow" is not a required feature of all disciplines.

b) No, it isn't. Earth Meld. Form of Mist (including the Dodge at inferior, so your Carrion Crows can still go off if you like that sort of thing). Rapid Change.

And if those don't suit, Gangrel and Country !Gangrel come with Canine Horde. Drawing Out the Beast is a common enough way for Animalism-users to mess with opponents, including the ability to screw up equipment. Terror Frenzy is potentially excellent. City !Gangrel come with Celerity which has a lot of versatile combat options - Sideslip and Side Strike are pretty decent, with Side Strike being fairly popular, Stutter-Step is tricksy but usable. Fast Hands technically works for them, but is obviously a bit annoying because of the card being so niche. Everyone can play Dodge.

ReverendRevolver wrote:

Yes, one less blood is hot for protean, but its fairly simple for agg to happen.

Okay, again, the suggestion wasn't about whether it was simple, but whether it ameliorates the problem of bruise-bleed ending up with the wrong things in hand. Here, it gets bruise and bleed, usable together. Getting extra damage is fairly simple, play Target whatever. Getting prevent is fairly simple, play the mountain of cards Fortitude provides, Leathery Hide etc. There's no reason that one discipline needs to be able to do everything in combat. Indeed, one discipline being able to cover so many bases in combat shifts the balance towards weenies way too much. Using guns, a like a .44 Magnum, gives you a lot of options with mono-Celerity, but much of what you might save on the capacity you can spend on the guns, so it's not a straight advantage.

ReverendRevolver wrote:

If i want to burn a minion routinely, i dont want 4+ cards to br needed every time.

Because yes, burning minions in every combat is something that should totally be easy to do with a tiny number of cards. (Note that you can play a claw and Amaranth for diablerie very easily indeed.)

ReverendRevolver wrote:

Im fine with gangrel getting any help, i just worry due to every protean card seeminly needing agg hands included.

So because some of Protean's theme is agg damage (leaving aside Rapid Change, Earth Control, Form of Mist, Earth Meld, Dual Form, Homunculus, Loki's Gift, Shadow of the Beast, and Flesh of Marble), it somehow needs damage prevention?

Its a support discipline that has the BEST Sce cards in the game. Nothing is better than untapping free or spending a blood to keep acting at stealth that also is a SCE.

Also, it has, off the top of my head, at least 5 ways to make hands agg, 3 to shoot agg, one agg ignore/mitigater, ome prevent all but one damage, and numerous ways to manuever and or dodge, and a couple presses.

It also has 3 (i guess 4) sources of stealth, one block fails&im unblockable, 2 spotty intercept, one vote generator(which is probably the most underrated protean card i can think of) and one way to get pumped strength.

Almost everything is blood intensive. Lokis gift, manuever/pressing, and the best sce and untap in the game are the exceptions.

Ismilar diaciplines (oh, and protean has one way to cancel protean, vic, or obt) havr a modifier for stealth or bleex pump at no cost, two seperate cards that give stealth or bleex at inf, intercept or rushing without drawback, and of course, agg hands that double as a manuever(sound familiar?) But ni blood cost for the manuever.

Burning vamps shouldnt be easy, but target anything shouldnt be a fix all.
My big problem is vicissitude, spiritus, and abombwe all do things protean should do, or does do, but they do it a billion times better on everything but sce.

They are better support disciplines, and protean should be less crappy, is what im getting at.

From the material Protean is supposed to be:

Shapechanging
Animalistic body changes, particularly to provide very damaging hand attacks
The ability to vanish in and out of the soil or other places by changing the body.
Structurally change the body to deal with damage.


It's an all-rounder physical combat discipline that has the quirky tricks of Dual Form, Form of Mist, Homonculus and Earth Meld. Otherwise Protean is generally about getting your aggravated rage monstrosity on. That's exactly what Shape of the Inner Beast is supposed to be... you let your Beast out to change your physical proportions and go on a killing spree.


So, I'd lean towards making it a scarily good Bruise Bleed card more than the defensive option. Making it burn 1 blood to get +strength and agg seems a good way to describe that. I was tempted to make it burn 2 blood and give + strength, agg and 1 additional.

Maybe an option to burn an additinal blood if blocked to gain effect?

Protean does already have 2 blood shadow of the wolf for +1 strength additional (i dont think ive EVER seen this card, though. It may be fictional. Same with CE ritual of the bitter rose. Its probably a fable....)

So its not a stretch. You could even lace in one additinal blood for the +1 and additional at basic, and burn 2 for mythic form text at superior.......

But i like bleed of 3 for Pro, regardless.