!Brujah cards

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

We're talking about +intercept on a Brujah, not a !Ventrue. If it was +Str, I wouldn't blink an eye... but it is +intercept built in on a Brujah. Feels too good with everything else.

If it would be +str THEN he would be undercosted as +str is more expensive (1.5 points) than +intercept (1 point)

EDIT: Demnogonis, I find your anti-camarilla hate rather weird. Brujah antitribu are a good clan, I have built many good decks with them, both from group 2 and group 4. They are great voters and great fighters.

Klaital wrote:

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

We're talking about +intercept on a Brujah, not a !Ventrue. If it was +Str, I wouldn't blink an eye... but it is +intercept built in on a Brujah. Feels too good with everything else.

If it would be +str THEN he would be undercosted as +str is more expensive (1.5 points) than +intercept (1 point)

EDIT: Demnogonis, I find your anti-camarilla hate rather weird. Brujah antitribu are a good clan, I have built many good decks with them, both from group 2 and group 4. They are great voters and great fighters.

Most likely it's linked with envy. Camarilla was already strong sect with very powerful staple cards like parity shift, second tradition, first tradition and with great vampires (Dimitra ?), while !brujah have mediocre vampires and sabbat have worse sect card than camarilla.

+1 intercept on !brujah is weaker than +1 intercept for clans with Auspex. +1 intercept that cost resources is even weaker.

@agzocgud : I like all of those cards as well, though I think Pack Leader shouldn't give intercept, since Sabbat already has disciplineless intercept, and disciplineless things shouldn't be too good in my opinion.

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

Oscar Garcia
6 cap with
5 points of disciplines
1 vote title
Intercept ability...

Feels slightly overpowered. He should lose the special or the title. I mean I know the Brujah need some defence, but this guy + Abbot and you've nearly got the makings of a serious blocker for a !Brujah... seems just too good.

How so, having all that defense stuff in your !Brujah makes them have less focus, and anyway why shouldn't they be able to block? That 0% defense thing is one of the dumbest things in any clan, makes your game a total coinflip operation. Oh no I didn't draw IG I get bleed for 6 bleurgh

Besides, thematically I feel the !Brujah are the regular troops in Sabbat's army, as such I think they should be capable of some basic operations.

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

Wacek seems okay, possibly close to being over-powered but not by much.

How? What sort of OP strategies you would craft that have him in there? He'd be OP if he would be a Prince, special or no special. The !Brujah pretty much suck, that means they need the !Ventrue treatment : cost-effective minions.

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

Rita seems too close to the top of the power-curve. 9cap, City title, 3 points of out-of-clan discplines and an ability hosing Camarilla titled vampires??

Why shouldn't she be near the top of the power curve, why should only select few (Camarilla) clans be there? We don't need more crap ever again, I have shelves full of vampires without merit. Hey I wonder why most of the 8+ cap !Brujah are there... But if she's G5, drop the fortitude, there's no reason to make some clan have excessively much one out-of-clan. Also I'm not sure if so many new guys should have defensively-minded specials. Maybe just give her a rush, or strength, or something. Also I think one !Brujah should be able to call Blood Siege from library

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

Pack Leader should probably have a higher capacity requirement and only work for younger vampires.

Thematically speaking it doesn't work that way, but it shouldn't be able to do so many things, or it could possibly be unique per player, or something. Abbot is already good enough disciplineless intercept thing, I wouldn't want Sabbat to be centered around that sort of a thing.

But you're not considering the concept of "Clan Strengths". Brujah are famously violent. Strength in their clan is par for the course. And they are NOT good at blocking actions.

For a Brujah, I'd see +1str as a 1 pointer and +1 intercept as a 1.5 pointer.
On a !Ventre, I'd see +1 str as a 1.5 pointer and +1 intercept as a 1 pointer.

There is ONE Brujah printed* with built in unconditional intercept, Jaroslav Pascek. Seems that unless thi vampire is supposed to be as capable as Jaroslav (who does suffer from Justicar-disease)... this vampire shouldn't have +1 intercept from a Clan Theme point of view.

*Brujah/!Brujah have 2 vampires with conditional intercept. All of them Brujah. Margeurite Foccart has intercept on Political Actions, Tura has intercept against other Brujah. So it seems like an even bigger stretch to give !Brujah unconditional +1 intercept when they can access it through things such as Abbot.

Costs of abilities are not affected by clan, they thankfully stopped doing that long ago so we don't get failures like group 1 gangrel titled vampires anymore (titles costed double for Gangrel originally due to thematic reasons). And IMO inherent +1 intercept on a vampire with AUS is much better than inherent +1 intercept on vampire with no real intercept discpline. Because just 1 intercept isn't going to get you too far.

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

But you're not considering the concept of "Clan Strengths". Brujah are famously violent. Strength in their clan is par for the course. And they are NOT good at blocking actions.

For a Brujah, I'd see +1str as a 1 pointer and +1 intercept as a 1.5 pointer.
On a !Ventre, I'd see +1 str as a 1.5 pointer and +1 intercept as a 1 pointer.

I disagree. Of course there is a reason that very few nossies and gangrel has +bleed, but those should go by the same basic design. The different cost for diffrent clans has led to some bad card design over the years, like comparing Sela or Shiela Mezarin to Natalia.

Instead there should be few vampires that breaks the clan concept. There is 1 follower of set with +1 intercept, one !tremere with rush and so on. Thats good design. Different cost for different clans is not IMO.

Regarding the !Brujah they are at the bottom of the list winning calns. To makes matter worse, their camarilla counterparts got a boost like never seen before n this game. If someone had presented New Carthage or Dmitra as fantasy cards before KoT they would get replies about smoking crack.