Nosferatu - Give them some love...

Don´t you hink there is a good Nos combat deck with a G1-G2 crypt?

It would, if combat decks were actually good.

Okay, so, I know, right...

But combat decks based only on disciplines is a really, really hard deck to play. The disciplines are fine, and the vampires are fairly priced, but the vampires there lack inherent numbers and abilities, like rushes, extra strength or the like. They are practically a bit larger crypt of weenie potence with titles.Not bad, but nothing spectacular, and really nothing other crypts can't do.

This could be debated to no end, but I'll compress it into agreeing with Lech on that Potence just isn't really good compared. Disarm is good and they have some okay stuff, but Walking Sticks with Target Vitals and Superior Fortitude does basically the same thing.

And Ventrue have Dominate.

The best thing I ever saw with Nosferatu (and just had to try it myself) was the Giotto Verducci Ashur Tablets spam, who tricks free Nosferatu princes into play, tailor makes the deck with his special and Ashurs, forces a vote lock with Condemnation Mute and then your OBF for voters go to town.

Of course you can be successful with G1-2 Nos Royalty, and Cock makes for a nice tool box, but the fact is that as a clan they just lack numbers other clans have.

@Kraus: Why don't more combat decks use the Path of Lilith in tandem with Tension & Fame?

I was thinking about !nos walling up with Information Network, Abbot, Raven Spy, Under Siege, etc. plus using Obfuscate for combat tricks (Hidden Lurker, Mask of 1K Faces, Shadow Boxing, etc.) to support Potence punching people into torpor.

And i still maintain that the Nosferatu need some kind of action compression. For example, Deflection is a great defensive card because it basically gains you an action (a bleed). Maybe something like Pier 13 (which nets you equip actions, right?) or a card like Disguised Weapon but for non-weapon non-unique Equipment (laptops, cam phones, etc.) A card similar to Patronage would also be handy, but rather than untap, let another one of your vamps take a free action (can't be blocked, doesn't tap them, etc.)

@Kraus: Why don't more combat decks use the Path of Lilith in tandem with Tension & Fame?

What do you think?

My guess is as good as any, but that it's a master card, has a condition to it and effectively mounts to not much better offensive output than computer hackings, is a deterrent. Simply put? Not enough numbers - the card isn't really good.

I wouldn't put it into my Potence rush decks. Leadership Vacuum seems a bit better, but in all honesty I'd probably just slot in a third Fame.

It's simple maths, really, even though I would be the last person to tell you VtES can be cracked or 'solved' through mathematics and numbers. But they are a factor.

LivesByProxy wrote:

Why don't more combat decks use the Path of Lilith in tandem with Tension & Fame?

Path of Lilith can't take effect the turn you play it - it takes effect during your untap phase. Tension and Fame can both take effect the turn you play, Dragonbound doesn't have a native burn clause (though is somewhat a double-edged sword) so they can't try to burn it on their own turn easily. Being able to do a lump of unpredictable pool damage is helpful - sure, they know your deck is probably packing them, but they don't generally know you're going to play it this turn.

Yes, you can be playing Animalism intercept, but that generally works best with slightly bigger vampires than, say, weenie Auspex can easily manage with lots of free transients and Bowl. And you may well have better things to be doing with your intercept than defending a slightly weird card.

Pritoos wrote:

Quite an interesting topic here!

As a long time Nosferatu player, I do agree with the initial statement about clan power. In my opinion, it may be due to the fact that disciplines do not combine so well.

1. Nosferatu aren't good voters, because they generally lack presence for voter cap and vote push. Some big ones don't, but its not common enough.
2. Nosferatu aren't too great in combat, because they generally lack discipline for damage prevention. Also potence is the worst combat discipline in the game. Some big caps are ok, but they are big caps. In addition, they lack maneuvers which is another issue of potence combat.
3. Nosferatu aren't great bloaters, because they don't have dominate (or presence) and lack that action to move blood downstairs (besides 4th tradition)
4. Nosferatu generally lack discipline for bleed bounce. Some bigger caps have it, but not Nosferatu as a whole.
5. Nosferatu generally lack discipline for intercept, besides animalism, which is ok-ish in theory but usually not enough to stop dedicated stealth decks, and nowhere near as good as auspex decks. Nosferatu princes have 2nd tradition, but thats about it.
6. Nosferatu generally lack discipline for +bleed.

So what are they good at? Nothing really.
When you ponder why is something weak, you need to compare it to its competition. How do nosferatu fare vs other clans? Terribly. They are strictly worse in about every category.

I was wondering if the !Nos could breed and swarm with Obfscuate and cards like Courier, Thuggee, Nocturns, Creation Rites, Thin-Blood Seers, etc. better than any other clan, but IDK. What do you guys think?

The Path of Lilith lets you stack torture counters, correct? My thought was to have some little vampire repeatedly rescue the vampires you knock into torpor

I was trying to think of an defensive , since Nosferatu seem to have a hard time surviving, and was actually unique in what it did. Something like:

Koschei's Egg
+1 stealth action. Place 1 pool (from your pool) on this card when you play it. You cannot lose the game while Koschei's Egg has any pool on it. Any minion with can take a action to burn Koschei's Egg.
Lock this reacting vampire. You cannot be reduced to less than 1 pool this turn from bleeds or burns.