Nosferatu - Give them some love...

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Kraus wrote:

elotar wrote:

Kraus wrote:

To even begin the discussion we will just have to agree to that combat is a part of VtES just as much as bleeding and voting are.

Obviously - no. Combat should be compared with hunting or stealth, having it as a dedicated strategy is total misunderstanding of the VtES intent.

There is a misunderstanding here. I am talking about the current card pool and what can at the moment be done with the cards. Hunting or Stealth are not ousting mechanisms within the current card pool. Thanks to Fame and Tension in the Ranks combat just happens to be an ousting mechanism. This is not an opinion, but a fact.

It concern Nosferatu in a way that they got 2 combat disciplines and one for stealth. So you cannot avoid discussing combat when speaking about them.

Nor am I trying to avoid it. Combat is one of their better options at the moment.

That being said, I would definitely rather see some new cards not revolving around combat for them, as I said, instead of new combat tools. They can already do okay combat.

Just now a tournament final in Bielsko-Biala had two G1-2 Nosferatu Royalty decks, one of them a breed-boon variant I heard. So they can still be viable. I still fail to see what they do better than a Ravnos breed version. Maybe the tournament report from that tournament will shed some light on that.

I can say something about breed-boon version becosue Martin(creator of the deck and winner of the tournament) is a friend from my playground and we tested this deck a lot. The idea behind this option was to create a Nos royalty deck post parity shift nerf. When the nerf hit and we tested classic version it was clear that it will not work as stable at it was.
Because of this Martin decided to use breed-boon strategy to make up for lose of pool gain from parity. You asked was is the advantage of this in relation to Ravnos deck.

1. You don't generate a all around table hate when players see what you are playing
2. Deck uses TT:Progeny instead of embrace with is cheaper and dont have to hunt and because you generate votes form vamps you don't rely on breeding so much
3. Multi acting
3. If you are playing Ravnos, intercept makes your game hard.

Ravnos deck for sure has more raw power, but Nos is more versatile and flexible in my opinion.

As for overal Nosferatu love. I think currently they suffer from lack of identity (deck wies.). In general you can find other clans that do the things Noses do but better. I alwes see Nosfertu as master of information and currently Im tesing a wall deck besed on Sergei Voshakov and Masgue of Judas to try to control opnents hand. I think this kind of hand control mechanic can be something Nosferatu can be unique at and fun to play.

Tadori wrote:

1. You don't generate a all around table hate when players see what you are playing
2. Deck uses TT:Progeny instead of embrace with is cheaper and dont have to hunt and because you generate votes form vamps you don't rely on breeding so much
3. Multi acting
4. If you are playing Ravnos, intercept makes your game hard.

1. Well, that's for sure.
2. Fair, but not inherently less blood intensive. You'll save the hunt action, so there's that.
3. Warsaw Station, of course, but if you're including Freak Drives, Ravnos have that in plenty as well. The station is really good though.
4. How is this different for Nosferatu? Both have a +stealth location, and not all stealth (heh) is blood intensive in Chimestry. Sure, Obfuscate is _the_ superior stealth discipline, but it eventually boils down to card slots. Also, Mirror Image is just bonkers in .

Nossies lack a vote push for the Boons and stat boosts for their babies (Week of Nightmares). I mean I'm not contesting the deck, since it's fine if it won a tournament, but my own dabblings on Nos breed and boon have been really unsuccesful. Then again I had the idea of even taking a glance at combat's direction, so... Shame on me.

Once again, really looking forward to the TWD on that tournament. The numbers kind of speak against the deck when compared to others if it's kind: Brujah Debate Breed (one I've played a bit now, and it has potential), Palla Grande (proved to be effective) and Week of Nightmares (oh god the numbers on that deck are bonkers).

Nos cam breed and boon is a 25vyear old deck so I'm confused why we are treating it like something new.

You have princes. They make progeny that get obf skill card. U call justice vote and boons and just have a lot of minions that are hard to block.

Ravnos clown car is more of the one trick pony style deck. The ratios and discipline make stealth not reliable so it's pretty binary - do I get blocked early? If not good chance to sweep table otherwise do not much.

Kraus wrote:

4. How is this different for Nosferatu? Both have a +stealth location, and not all stealth (heh) is blood intensive in Chimestry. Sure, Obfuscate is _the_ superior stealth discipline, but it eventually boils down to card slots. Also, Mirror Image is just bonkers in .

First as you said blood intensive. Second Ravnos deck realis on cards to have votes and its hard to balance stealth/vote/breed cards in deck to be fully efficient. And yes Mirror Image is bonkers

Kraus wrote:

Nossies lack a vote push for the Boons and stat boosts for their babies (Week of Nightmares).

that's true but they are perfect fuel for blocking (lack of bounce sucks)and beed( for 1 but still). And week of nightmares is always a gamble, one cancel and one major win conditions disapires.

Kraus wrote:

The numbers kind of speak against the deck when compared to others if it's kind: Brujah Debate Breed (one I've played a bit now, and it has potential), Palla Grande (proved to be effective) and Week of Nightmares (oh god the numbers on that deck are bonkers).

As I said I think Ravnos power level is much higher but its as much curse as blessing you always play against entire table.

Also I'm intrigued by Brujah breeder can you show a list of it

Tadori wrote:

And yes Mirror Image is bonkers

I don't understand this. Please explain. It is likely that I have played more vtes games with ravnos and/or chimerstry than anyone else ever and I just don't get this.