Compromise on Villein

Gargoylee wrote:

If only 1-2 people are playing Villeins, if your deck is equal to the 1-2 decks with Villeins, your first Minion Tap should only cost you either 0, 1 or 2 pool - depending on table seating.

Still assuming your deck is equal to the other 2 decks playing with Villeins, your next Minion Tap should cost you either 2, 3 or 4 pool.

I unfortunately don't understand you here. What do you mean by my deck being 'equal' to the villein playing decks? On equal power level, or drawing minion taps and villeins with equal frequency?

Also, I don't really understand how the seating affects the cost of minion taps. Do you mean who goes first and gets out vampires first? I think that is a bit far fetched, because it is so random. Also, if you expect to have a minion tap in starting hand, you would need to have 6-8 of those in your deck to ensure that. Starting to discard those in the midst of other cards you would like to discard does get a bit tedious, I think...

Anyways, it might be a good idea to discuss this in a topic of it's own. There seems to be some people who do still think Minion Tap is viable even in enviorments that play Villein.

I'd encourage you to have a go and try it out. If you think playing minion taps over villeins really benefits you (even if you don't play Anson + Parthenon + 10 Sudden Reversals and cancel every single Villein, including those played cross table), then I am proven wrong. Still, I think Villein destroyed Minion Tap, and as it seems it was intentional from the start.

I have a pretty simple proposal for errata if people think errata is necessary or worth the effort. See it from the previous post. Other than that, I don't know what to do with the issue, if anything needs to be done. There are looming problems with the card, and it's inaccessibility, but more opinions are needed.

At least I think that.



Aside from that, props to Wookie. Next time I get to build new decks it could be a nice idea to build all of my decks without any villeins at all. Just to get a new perspective.

I have a pretty simple proposal for errata if people think errata is necessary or worth the effort.

Errata is never appropriate or necessary.

Remember: Errata is banning a printed card and allowing a proxy of the same name that doesn't have the correct text on it. This is never good for players of the game.

The 400+ people that have bothered to join this site are the outliers, the fanatics. The vast majority of players enjoy the game as printed.

Kraus wrote:

If you think playing minion taps over villeins really benefits you (even if you don't play Anson + Parthenon + 10 Sudden Reversals and cancel every single Villein, including those played cross table), then I am proven wrong.

I think nobody would state that Minion Tap is BETTER than Villein, that's true. But those "you don't have any chance with Minion Tap in your deck"-statements are false IMHO.

Joscha wrote:

Kraus wrote:

If you think playing minion taps over villeins really benefits you (even if you don't play Anson + Parthenon + 10 Sudden Reversals and cancel every single Villein, including those played cross table), then I am proven wrong.

I think nobody would state that Minion Tap is BETTER than Villein, that's true. But those "you don't have any chance with Minion Tap in your deck"-statements are false IMHO.

Having seen a Nos royalty deck getting hosed by 3 other players playing Villeins and the Nos player playing Minion Taps, I'd dispute your last sentence.
If your plan depends in getting enough pool back for your large investments, and it turns out you get a lot less back, your defence falls apart eventually.

Wookie813 wrote:

No errata.
No bans.
Play.The.Game.

That's what weekly games are for. Outside weekly games?
Discuss.The.Game.

Joscha wrote:

What annoys me to a medium degree is the way some players go if they are convinced some cards are too strong. Instead of taking the opportunities the game gives them they yell for cardchange. If you feel a card threatens your deck come up with a solution or take the threat. I admit, I don't like the Minion Tap-hosing ability of Villein too. But it is far from making MT unplayable.

I don't feel Villein "threatens my deck", I own 16 of them. I don't think Villein is too strong, it gave a much needed boost to big caps. What I do feel is that it's increasingly low availability is an unreasonable obstacle for new players. If you think my reasoning is incorrect argue against it (preferably in the other thread) but don't attack my assumed motivations. Even if I did feel my decks were threatened by Villein it wouldn't disprove my reasoning.