A SAD TIME FOR VTES PLAYERS IN BRAZIL

cordovader wrote:

I thought this game was played by adults...

No way!

As I remember, last time Brazilian players overran this forum when they was complaining about ban of a red star.

So can't help thinking, that drama is greatly exaggerated.

Accusations about abuse of vekn positions and vekn.net functionality, concerning deleting of calendar events, archons and player bannings (if there was any), should be investigated and fixed, if possible. If there are any forms of cheating "at ground level", than it may be a reason to juggle more intensively with the ideas of minimizing it, keeping in mind our quite limited resources (maybe it's a good idea anyway).

Everything else, I think, should be decided by the Brasilian community. Maybe we should remind them, that there is no limit of a number of princes in any given city, if there are several persons who got different views on organization of sanctioned tournaments.

elotar wrote:

cordovader wrote:

I thought this game was played by adults...

No way!

Accusations about abuse of vekn positions and vekn.net functionality, concerning deleting of calendar events, archons and player bannings (if there was any), should be investigated and fixed, if possible. If there are any forms of cheating "at ground level", than it may be a reason to juggle more intensively with the ideas of minimizing it, keeping in mind our quite limited resources (maybe it's a good idea anyway).

Everything else, I think, should be decided by the Brasilian community. Maybe we should remind them, that there is no limit of a number of princes in any given city, if there are several persons who got different views on organization of sanctioned tournaments.

Agree with most of these things.
The VEKN database has logs. Are these maintained?
Also, does the current NC have the support of all the Princes?
Can he have a conference call with Ginés? Can Desso as well?

VEKN is inclusive.
Desso volunteered to help and all help is welcome.
I don't think this should be seen by ANY player as VEKN taking a 'side' in any discussion.

I don't play anymore, but I love the game and I have people all over the World who I consider friends. Many of them are regulars here.
Lets move forward as best as possible.

By posting this here, some Brazilian players are requesting help from ALL users of this forum, not just VEKN.
Otherwise they could have organized depositions and contacted VEKN IC's directly.

Meus camaradas, têm de estar abertos à ajuda e comentários de vossos colegas estrangeiros.
É de boa fé. (*)

(*) My comrades [in portuguese the expression is not political] , you have to be open to the help and commentaries of your international colleagues.
It is of good faith.

I simply don’t care if he keeps playing and organizing local events, but he is not fit for his position on the IC.

VERY serious allegations, falsification, despotism and the works...
From so many people that there has to be at least some foundation to them.

What is most serious is the fact that this person is part of the Inner Circle as well as a Prince. If the allegations are deemed to be true then there is NO way that such a person can hold a position in the Inner Circle. The Prince position should be considered too.

To quote a classic: "With great power comes a great responsibility."
If abuse of power can be deemed to have happened, the repercussions must be comparable to the position of the abusing person. As we are talking about top positions of VEKN (IC) I think the penalty must be as severe as possible and therefor I would not be opposed to revoking the membership to the VEKN.



Over the years I've formed the opinion that South Americans tend to be very passionate people who try to embrace whatever they are doing by 110%. Over the years I've noticed that the VTES related things were embraced in a similar way over there, perhaps noticeably more than I think is needed, but to each his own.

However, during the years I've seemed to have noticed some sort of additional hierarchy of their own built into the Brazilian VTES community. Any such hierarchy is totally unnecessary and I think serves only two purposes: ego building as well as amassing power over others.

I can see all of the thing mentioned in the testimonies happening especially because of such unnecessary hierarchical power structure.

Purge your local VTES scene from all the non-VEKN elements and hierarchies and you should be well in the way of preventing this kind of disaster ever happening again.

Thanks to all Brazilian players for their testimony. So many testimonies and so many efforts at once show two things:
- how messed up the situation is,
- how much passion you give to v:tes,

we'll probably talk among the IC about this subject. I don't know when. I suppose Ben and Gines have already addressed the matter by themselves. I don't deal with those parts.

What I can say as the other organized play coordinator worldwide: I would never use my position on a national level. I have refused the NC job in France because it would make me partial with my IC job. I am giving advices to the NC if he asks (or sometimes when he doesn't ) but I would never take decision for him.

It's important to realize that at the end of the day, the IC has a coordination role, not an authoritarian role. We just want as many players as possible to enjoy their passion for the game, and try to find solutions for this (such as the GP's... I might talk about that later on in the discussion) but we don't force anybody into that. I take part to several unsanctioned events and that's very cool.

So for the moment, Brazilian friends, please take patience and use that passion you're showing us to play the game, casual games, unofficial tournaments, whatever you want, and bring us those photos on the VEKN site for example, I'd like to see all those faces I don't know,

and if you need another IC coordinator to enter tournaments or whatever is linked to organized play, I am here for this. orian gissler on facebook.

I'll be following this.

Regarding Prices.

Some years ago I asked about the inclusion of yet another Prince to greater Helsinki area since there were still quite a few at least semi active Princes. I was told that it shouldn't be a problem to have several Princes as the more activity there is the better.

So we now have some half a dozen Princes for around a million people or so.

So if you have a Prince in Brazil who is handling things dubiously, just have other(s) also organize events. Preferably not on same dates though. If Prince's conduct is dubious and he is not liked, people can thus ignore him and his events in favor of the events by other organizers. If the problematic person also managed networking possibilities, forums, Facebook groups and such, start new forums/groups which are not under his jurisdiction. With all this you can distance yourself from the problematic person and ostracise him if he himself doesn't have the sense and decency to step down from his position.

Also remember that you can always post here at VEKN forums. Since we already have a spanish sub-forum, should we also have a brazilian one as well?

If that person can modify VEKN Event Calendar, he most certainly should not be able to do the same to VEKN forum posts. So always make an event announcement post at www.vekn.net/forum/south-america