State of the V:EKN - October 2013
26 Oct 2013 06:01 #55713
by Damnans
V:EKN Website Coordinator
State of the V:EKN - October 2013 was created by Damnans
Greetings fellow V:TES players,
As most of you may already know, I was recently elected Chairman of the V:EKN (with Antonio Cobo as my Vice Chairman) during the meeting of National Coordinators and Inner Circle members held on the 4th of October, 2013 in Stockholm.
In a moment, I will talk about some of my projects as Chairman, but first I want to thank Johannes Walch for his years of dedication to V:TES and especially for his enormous efforts to bring our beloved game back in print.
I can assure you all that I will also do my best to keep promoting V:TES at all levels, despite the major setback of print-on-demand not happening. And I hope to engage the community of players in several projects I have in mind, which are listed below:
Video demos
In order to make V:TES more accessible to new players I have asked the Marketing Team to develop a series of short videos in English to teach playing V:TES (with subtitles in different languages).
Translations
Nowadays, where smart phones and tablets are everywhere, thus allowing the players to have an easy access to the up-to-date card texts or to the most recent version of the Rulebook or Tournament Rules, I think it will also be very useful for those who don’t speak English to have these resources available in their own language. So I will try to form working groups in charge doing these translations.
World Ranking incentives
I think it would be a good idea to make the current ranking system more significant, either by granting the top X players automatic qualification for the Continental Championships and/or for the Second Day of the European Championship, or by giving the top X players some special prizes, etc.
Standardization of European Championship applications
In order to standardize the application for organizing the European Championships, I am going to create an application form and set all necessary deadlines to be met during the whole process.
VEKN sets
Another thing that keeps some players interested in the game is the release of new sets, so the V:EKN Design Team, under Ben Peal’s Leadership, will keep developing new ones.
Judges’ Guide
Antonio Cobo (V:EKN Vice Chairman) is going to form a team to fully revise and adapt the Judges’ Guide to what the V:TES tournament scene really needs.
Rules Test for Players
I want to create an online V:TES and tournament rules test as a useful tool for players to know their level of understanding of these rules and to improve it. The person in charge of developing this test is Antonio Cobo.
Better communication
I intend to keep the community updated on the activities of the V:EKN on a regular basis, and involved in V:EKN projects. Wait for upcoming posts asking for volunteers.
Inner Circle changes
Johannes Walch has been appointed Chairman Emeritus, and, whereas I am still performing the duties of Website Coordinator, this position is available to anyone suitable to take.
Ginés Quiñonero
V:EKN Chairman
As most of you may already know, I was recently elected Chairman of the V:EKN (with Antonio Cobo as my Vice Chairman) during the meeting of National Coordinators and Inner Circle members held on the 4th of October, 2013 in Stockholm.
In a moment, I will talk about some of my projects as Chairman, but first I want to thank Johannes Walch for his years of dedication to V:TES and especially for his enormous efforts to bring our beloved game back in print.
I can assure you all that I will also do my best to keep promoting V:TES at all levels, despite the major setback of print-on-demand not happening. And I hope to engage the community of players in several projects I have in mind, which are listed below:
Video demos
In order to make V:TES more accessible to new players I have asked the Marketing Team to develop a series of short videos in English to teach playing V:TES (with subtitles in different languages).
Translations
Nowadays, where smart phones and tablets are everywhere, thus allowing the players to have an easy access to the up-to-date card texts or to the most recent version of the Rulebook or Tournament Rules, I think it will also be very useful for those who don’t speak English to have these resources available in their own language. So I will try to form working groups in charge doing these translations.
World Ranking incentives
I think it would be a good idea to make the current ranking system more significant, either by granting the top X players automatic qualification for the Continental Championships and/or for the Second Day of the European Championship, or by giving the top X players some special prizes, etc.
Standardization of European Championship applications
In order to standardize the application for organizing the European Championships, I am going to create an application form and set all necessary deadlines to be met during the whole process.
VEKN sets
Another thing that keeps some players interested in the game is the release of new sets, so the V:EKN Design Team, under Ben Peal’s Leadership, will keep developing new ones.
Judges’ Guide
Antonio Cobo (V:EKN Vice Chairman) is going to form a team to fully revise and adapt the Judges’ Guide to what the V:TES tournament scene really needs.
Rules Test for Players
I want to create an online V:TES and tournament rules test as a useful tool for players to know their level of understanding of these rules and to improve it. The person in charge of developing this test is Antonio Cobo.
Better communication
I intend to keep the community updated on the activities of the V:EKN on a regular basis, and involved in V:EKN projects. Wait for upcoming posts asking for volunteers.
Inner Circle changes
Johannes Walch has been appointed Chairman Emeritus, and, whereas I am still performing the duties of Website Coordinator, this position is available to anyone suitable to take.
Ginés Quiñonero
V:EKN Chairman
V:EKN Website Coordinator
The following user(s) said Thank You: jhattara, Brum, Pascal Bertrand, Lönkka, extrala, Stefan, Joscha, brandonsantacruz, Dorrinal, KevinM, Ashur, dessu
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26 Oct 2013 12:30 #55723
by fredsct
Replied by fredsct on topic Re: State of the V:EKN - October 2013
I hate to sound like a broken record every time this comes up, but putting important incentives on the so-called "World Rankings" - which is really just an incentive point system and not a real ranking system at all - is a really bad idea.
The problem is that the so-called "ranking system" is completely unfair. It rewards attendance at tournaments, which is obviously a good thing if you're promoting the game but a bad thing if you're trying to be fair to all the players who live in all the far-flung outlying places who cannot reasonably attend many tournaments or large tournaments.
Back a decade ago when I tried to point this out to all the folks who were so enthusiastic about implementing the current system, I was told that it was a wonderful thing to inventivize players to attend tournament, I was told that this system of recording points scored for various feats was at least feasible to implement (unlike a real rating system), and I was told that no system of truly rating player performance was likely to be very accurate - all of which may well be true. But since there were to be no important spoils handed out on the basis of it, it didn't matter. My response, and hopefully the response of most intelligent players, was to simply ignore the stupid thing. But now Ginés proposes to start using it to determine important rewards. I believe this would ultimately have a bad effect on the game once players in tournament-sparse areas start trying to compete on this playing field and realizing that they need to make 5 or 10 times the effort (or worse) as players in tournament-dense areas make to get the same results. In the long run, such a system will only discourage players from becoming heavily involved as tournament players rather than encourage them.
I would ask that any plans to elevate the importance of the VEKN ranking system be tabled unless and until a fair true rating system can be devised and implemented.
Fred Scott, Prince of Phoenix, AZ, USA
The problem is that the so-called "ranking system" is completely unfair. It rewards attendance at tournaments, which is obviously a good thing if you're promoting the game but a bad thing if you're trying to be fair to all the players who live in all the far-flung outlying places who cannot reasonably attend many tournaments or large tournaments.
Back a decade ago when I tried to point this out to all the folks who were so enthusiastic about implementing the current system, I was told that it was a wonderful thing to inventivize players to attend tournament, I was told that this system of recording points scored for various feats was at least feasible to implement (unlike a real rating system), and I was told that no system of truly rating player performance was likely to be very accurate - all of which may well be true. But since there were to be no important spoils handed out on the basis of it, it didn't matter. My response, and hopefully the response of most intelligent players, was to simply ignore the stupid thing. But now Ginés proposes to start using it to determine important rewards. I believe this would ultimately have a bad effect on the game once players in tournament-sparse areas start trying to compete on this playing field and realizing that they need to make 5 or 10 times the effort (or worse) as players in tournament-dense areas make to get the same results. In the long run, such a system will only discourage players from becoming heavily involved as tournament players rather than encourage them.
I would ask that any plans to elevate the importance of the VEKN ranking system be tabled unless and until a fair true rating system can be devised and implemented.
Fred Scott, Prince of Phoenix, AZ, USA
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26 Oct 2013 23:42 - 26 Oct 2013 23:44 #55742
by ReverendRevolver
Replied by ReverendRevolver on topic Re: State of the V:EKN - October 2013
The current rankings look terrible for most of the US. i liked the initial idea to only consider recent things relevant, but given recent declines, at least that i know of, nearly all of "top ten" is going to be he northern half of the eastern hemisphere.
2 years back, we had ohio tournaments alot, and john bell won a ton of them. If we looked at these numbers then, it would be skewed in the favor of all of europe and one small part of the US.
Id love incentive stuff for rankings, but with pod off the table, im not too astonished by the prospect. For winning a continental championship, a trophy makes sense, but not for a,ratings system that alienates regions.
Again, id be bitching just as much if not more if my region still had some weeks with two tournaments, and an average of 3 a month. It happened around 2008 ish. I bitched for a few months about being sick of celerity guns but i hadnt been able to test anything else due to no casual games.
At that point, random scrub players from ohio that stopped playing when local buzz died would have outranked axtual good players. And id be annoyed.
Id say make the standings only matrer for championships and qualifiers if we add prizes. Once several regions ar having even monthly tourneys, maybe consider rankings to matter.
PoD dying put a hurtin on hyping the game locally. Not gonna lie, its kinda a death blow. Not getting staples hurts the game for newbees who arent looking to drop $80 on cards. Mt$ reels them in eazier.
BUT
I like the rest of what was mentioned. Especially making the cards available in other other languages.
2 years back, we had ohio tournaments alot, and john bell won a ton of them. If we looked at these numbers then, it would be skewed in the favor of all of europe and one small part of the US.
Id love incentive stuff for rankings, but with pod off the table, im not too astonished by the prospect. For winning a continental championship, a trophy makes sense, but not for a,ratings system that alienates regions.
Again, id be bitching just as much if not more if my region still had some weeks with two tournaments, and an average of 3 a month. It happened around 2008 ish. I bitched for a few months about being sick of celerity guns but i hadnt been able to test anything else due to no casual games.
At that point, random scrub players from ohio that stopped playing when local buzz died would have outranked axtual good players. And id be annoyed.
Id say make the standings only matrer for championships and qualifiers if we add prizes. Once several regions ar having even monthly tourneys, maybe consider rankings to matter.
PoD dying put a hurtin on hyping the game locally. Not gonna lie, its kinda a death blow. Not getting staples hurts the game for newbees who arent looking to drop $80 on cards. Mt$ reels them in eazier.
BUT
I like the rest of what was mentioned. Especially making the cards available in other other languages.
Last edit: 26 Oct 2013 23:44 by ReverendRevolver.
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27 Oct 2013 06:04 - 27 Oct 2013 06:04 #55746
by Damnans
I think the current ranking looks terrible for most of the US because most US tournaments do not get reported.
In 2013, 49 constructed tournaments have been held in the US, but only 11 have been reported so far.
In Spain, for instance, there have been 53 tournaments held in 2013, and 47 have been reported.
V:EKN Website Coordinator
Replied by Damnans on topic Re: State of the V:EKN - October 2013
The current rankings look terrible for most of the US. i liked the initial idea to only consider recent things relevant, but given recent declines, at least that i know of, nearly all of "top ten" is going to be he northern half of the eastern hemisphere.
[...]
Id love incentive stuff for rankings, but with pod off the table, im not too astonished by the prospect. For winning a continental championship, a trophy makes sense, but not for a,ratings system that alienates regions.
I think the current ranking looks terrible for most of the US because most US tournaments do not get reported.
In 2013, 49 constructed tournaments have been held in the US, but only 11 have been reported so far.
In Spain, for instance, there have been 53 tournaments held in 2013, and 47 have been reported.
V:EKN Website Coordinator
Last edit: 27 Oct 2013 06:04 by Damnans.
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27 Oct 2013 06:16 #55747
by Damnans
I have been implementing this idea to the Spanish ranking for several years now, and it seems to be motivating some players to travel around to play tournaments and/or to participate in as many tournaments as possible.
Putting some incentives on the V:EKN Ranking is in my opinion just another way to motivate the players who care about their ranking, who in turn will encourage the princes to report events.
The nature of the prizes to be awarded to the top X players in the V:EKN Ranking is still to be discussed.
V:EKN Website Coordinator
Replied by Damnans on topic Re: State of the V:EKN - October 2013
I hate to sound like a broken record every time this comes up, but putting important incentives on the so-called "World Rankings" - which is really just an incentive point system and not a real ranking system at all - is a really bad idea.
I have been implementing this idea to the Spanish ranking for several years now, and it seems to be motivating some players to travel around to play tournaments and/or to participate in as many tournaments as possible.
Putting some incentives on the V:EKN Ranking is in my opinion just another way to motivate the players who care about their ranking, who in turn will encourage the princes to report events.
The nature of the prizes to be awarded to the top X players in the V:EKN Ranking is still to be discussed.
V:EKN Website Coordinator
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27 Oct 2013 06:39 - 27 Oct 2013 06:47 #55748
by fredsct
Implementing the idea in a relatively limited geographical area like Spain is hardly going to give you a true idea of how vastly unfair the concept is. At least most parts of Spain are within relatively reasonable driving distance of one another. Well, OK, it depends on one's definition of "reasonable", certainly, but compared to other places in the world, players are going to be relatively equally challenged by access to the same tournaments. When you start talking about "worldwide ranking", though, comparing the opportunities to play in a dense urban area with lots of tournaments and many more within a few hours drive to people who live within driving distance of, oh, say, 10 other players - 3 of whom may be 200 km down the road one way and 2 of whom may be 300 km down another road - the comparison is insane.
You are kidding yourself to frame the problems with American ratings as "reporting problems". Perhaps there are also reporting problems, too, but it doesn't matter. No incentive system such as this will ever be fair and the ratings differential everyone can see between European and American players demonstrates the point perfectly. It may even be that if American princes are less consistent about reporting tournament results than European princes, it may be because frankly, they already don't care as much: for Americans, the ranking system isn't interesting because they understand much better how unfair it is.
I certainly sympathize with the idea of motivating players to play in tournaments - for any reason you can find to motivate them. But the flaw in your line of thought is that you will only motivate players to care about rankings if they feel they have an equal opportunity to score well with all the other players - which is not the case in many places. Furthermore, you risk creating a political problem if, for instance, you effectively reserve a set of spots in the 2nd days of continental tournaments based on a system of qualifying that many players will view as unavailable to themselves.
Fred
Replied by fredsct on topic Re: State of the V:EKN - October 2013
I have been implementing this idea to the Spanish ranking for several years now, and it seems to be motivating some players to travel around to play tournaments and/or to participate in as many tournaments as possible.
Implementing the idea in a relatively limited geographical area like Spain is hardly going to give you a true idea of how vastly unfair the concept is. At least most parts of Spain are within relatively reasonable driving distance of one another. Well, OK, it depends on one's definition of "reasonable", certainly, but compared to other places in the world, players are going to be relatively equally challenged by access to the same tournaments. When you start talking about "worldwide ranking", though, comparing the opportunities to play in a dense urban area with lots of tournaments and many more within a few hours drive to people who live within driving distance of, oh, say, 10 other players - 3 of whom may be 200 km down the road one way and 2 of whom may be 300 km down another road - the comparison is insane.
You are kidding yourself to frame the problems with American ratings as "reporting problems". Perhaps there are also reporting problems, too, but it doesn't matter. No incentive system such as this will ever be fair and the ratings differential everyone can see between European and American players demonstrates the point perfectly. It may even be that if American princes are less consistent about reporting tournament results than European princes, it may be because frankly, they already don't care as much: for Americans, the ranking system isn't interesting because they understand much better how unfair it is.
Putting some incentives on the V:EKN Ranking is in my opinion just another way to motivate the players who care about their ranking, who in turn will encourage the princes to report events.
I certainly sympathize with the idea of motivating players to play in tournaments - for any reason you can find to motivate them. But the flaw in your line of thought is that you will only motivate players to care about rankings if they feel they have an equal opportunity to score well with all the other players - which is not the case in many places. Furthermore, you risk creating a political problem if, for instance, you effectively reserve a set of spots in the 2nd days of continental tournaments based on a system of qualifying that many players will view as unavailable to themselves.
Fred
Last edit: 27 Oct 2013 06:47 by fredsct.
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