Re: New Psyche and Telepathic Tracking

If we were doing it the way you suggest, we would have
- Psyche! can squeeze a combat between the current combat and a combat another Psyche! queued (and you could play any amount of Psyche!'s in the first combat).
- Blissful Agony vs Blissful Agony would be a mess
- IotK vs IotK would be a mess.

The thing about combat is that it isn't an "instantaneous" effect (such as "send to torpor", "tap" or "burn 1 blood").

LSJ tried not to have any stack at all. He managed - through rulings, sometimes - to avoid stacks. If you queue effects that will happen "later", you're creating such a stack. The problem with stacks is that you delay something's resolution.

Pascal wrote:

Non-existant user wrote:

Assuming they are, what happens if the acting minion plays a Psyche, then the reacting plays Telepathic Tracking?

A new round of combat will happen (TT's "combat does not end"). Psyche!'s "start a new combat after this round" effect is lost (as much as Rotschreck's "send that vampire to torpor after combat has ended" is lost)

I think that this is incorrect, the errata needs to be changed, or you're overturning a ruling accidentally. Rotschreck and new Psyche! aren't parallels in this way.

From floppyzedolfin.free.fr/vtes/cardlist/cardlist-20111202

Floppy wrote:

[CEL] {Only usable at the end of a round when both combatants are still ready and combat is about to end. After this round, begin another combat with the opposing minion.}

Rules Team Rulings 01-MAY-2002

RTR wrote:

Effects that end combat and then do something else after combat (all in the
single resolution of the effect) will fizzle if combat doesn't end or if a
new combat is started.

This is what kills Rotschreck - its resolution and effect are simultaneous, and it gets interrupted.

New Psyche! isn't end-combat-and-do-something-in-a-single-effect. It's "set up an effect to be resolved later". (Which just happens to be imminently.)

RTR wrote:

If an effect resolves and sets up an effect to be resolved later (e.g.,
Undead Persistence's torpor effect or Siren's Lure's combat), then the
effect will not be canceled by "interruptions" (extending combat/starting
combat/etc.).

My reading of new Psyche!'s card text is that it's an Undead Persistence effect, not a Rotschreck one.

(The words "This effect is lost if combat is extended" would cover it.

As would, potentially, "Play when combat is about to end; restart combat" - although that would prevent Obedience. Actually, I think that would open a whole new can of worms.)

Well, there are two things here.
First, the meaning of "after" in VTES, which is "immediately after" [LSJ 20010712] (except when it's been ruled otherwise)

Second, I used "after this round" rather than "after this combat" to avoid that one. Obviously it wasn't enough Do you suggest something like:
"After this round, unless a new round in this combat occurs, start a new combat with .. " ?

Pascal wrote:

Second, I used "after this round" rather than "after this combat" to avoid that one.

Yes, I was thinking about that after I posted. That makes it feel like - with that wording - Psyche! is played, Telepathic Tracking is played (extending combat), the round finally ends, and then Psyche! kicks in during combat.

Pascal wrote:

Obviously it wasn't enough Do you suggest something like:
"After this round, unless a new round in this combat occurs, start a new combat with .. " ?

How about:

With "immediately" being optional, depending on your tastes.

I was also wondering how the new Psyche interacts with Telepathic Tracking.

Before the ruling, the opportunity to play TT happened before combat was over, so it was played before Psyche!

With the new wording, they appear to be in the same timing window. But if the acting player has impulse, he may try to play a Psyche! when the other player wants to continue combat with Telepathic Tracking.

Similarly, the current wording seems to indicate that the acting player may pre-empt the opposing player from playing "end of round" or "end of combat" cards by playing Psyche! first (I get to play my Taste of Vitae, but I play Psyche! before you can play your Taste of Vitae or Disarm).

I'm glad to see that you guys are already working on this!

If someone plays sup' Telepathic Tracking, it voids any previously played Psyche!
And if someone plays sup' TT, sup' Psyche! can't be played.
And if sup' Psyche! is played, another sup' Psyche! can't be played (because there is a queued combat).


@jamesatzephyr: Would that allow two Pscyhes! in a round?