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09 Mar 2012 09:34 #25388 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Secret decklist

No different than putting the edge on your cards in a way you need to interact with it while untapping or holding counters in your hand to remember Temptation counters.

And that is allowed?


Holding counters in your hand or placing the edge marker on a card you control (without obscuring the card) or on top of your library? Those are definitely allowed.


If counters are put on a card by card text, that's where they should be. Taking them up in your hand just before burning them, or to clearer see card text is one thing but holding them in your hand for a longer period or for some other reason is something I'd definitly rule against.

You misunderstood: Pagan was speaking of holding *new* counters in hand during the untap to remember to put them on the cards.

The edge has no reason (ruleswise) to be put on cards, thus it shouldn't be. Just like your library shouldn't be put on top of your crypt etc.

I just hope then that you put your Blood Dolls ON your vampire, not UNDER. Yes, it hides the vampire, but hey, you have to play according to the rules, right? ;)

So you can put the edge wherever you want, as long as it doesn't hides important information (a vampire card, some pool). You can put it on your head too.
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09 Mar 2012 09:39 #25389 by henrik
Replied by henrik on topic Re: Secret decklist

The counters held in hand are not the counters already on Temptations but rather the counters that are going to be placed on Temptations in your next Master Phase. So that you'd remember to put those counters on the Temptations. And that's definitely allowed.


Ah, I see. Counters that are out of game is a different story, of course. Can do almost whatever with those.

As for the location of the Edge: as long as its clearly visible for other players and it doesn't obstruct anything, you can keep it where ever you want to keep it. If it's small enough (e.g. a die) you can as well put it on top of your library.


Putting things on cards without the rules stating that those things should be put on cards is something that shouldn't be done.
Putting stuff on top of your library (or crypt) without the rules stating that those things should be put on your library (or crypt) is something that shouldn't be done.

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09 Mar 2012 10:25 #25393 by Ashur
Replied by Ashur on topic Re: Secret decklist

The counters held in hand are not the counters already on Temptations but rather the counters that are going to be placed on Temptations in your next Master Phase. So that you'd remember to put those counters on the Temptations. And that's definitely allowed.

As for the location of the Edge: as long as its clearly visible for other players and it doesn't obstruct anything, you can keep it where ever you want to keep it. If it's small enough (e.g. a die) you can as well put it on top of your library.

Is this in the rules, or is it just how you rule?
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09 Mar 2012 11:02 #25394 by jhattara
Replied by jhattara on topic Re: Secret decklist

The counters held in hand are not the counters already on Temptations but rather the counters that are going to be placed on Temptations in your next Master Phase. So that you'd remember to put those counters on the Temptations. And that's definitely allowed.

As for the location of the Edge: as long as its clearly visible for other players and it doesn't obstruct anything, you can keep it where ever you want to keep it. If it's small enough (e.g. a die) you can as well put it on top of your library.

Is this in the rules, or is it just how you rule?


There is nothing in the rules about where you should keep the Edge. Only thing that limits where you can keep it is this:

Tournament Rules
5.1. Cheating
Cheating includes, but is not limited to, the following intentional activities:
* Misrepresenting or obscuring public information (pool totals, number of cards in deck, and so on)
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09 Mar 2012 11:22 #25399 by henrik
Replied by henrik on topic Re: Secret decklist

I just hope then that you put your Blood Dolls ON your vampire, not UNDER. Yes, it hides the vampire, but hey, you have to play according to the rules, right? ;)

So you can put the edge wherever you want, as long as it doesn't hides important information (a vampire card, some pool). You can put it on your head too.

Do we want the discussion at this level?
Suggestions that putting a Blood Doll "on" a vampire can only be done by obscuring the vampire card itself isn't really worth replying to.
The definition of having a card "on" another card is something that I think is pretty well known and accepted. Personally, I'd define it different from the phrase "on top", which is used for advancement cards in VtES.

There is nothing in the rules about where you should keep the Edge. Only thing that limits where you can keep it is this:

Tournament Rules
5.1. Cheating
Cheating includes, but is not limited to, the following intentional activities:
* Misrepresenting or obscuring public information (pool totals, number of cards in deck, and so on)

There are rules for when and what to place on top of cards, library, crypt etc. If those aren't enough for you, here's a ruling from LSJ on the subject:
groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/33939ee91ad97bea

The highlight would be this, but I suggest reading all of it:

Only counters indicated by card text and/or rules (blood, disease, corruption,
vandal, etc.) are placed on cards.

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09 Mar 2012 11:42 - 09 Mar 2012 11:45 #25401 by jhattara
Replied by jhattara on topic Re: Secret decklist
This game is not Magic. We do not need rules for everything. Use common sense.

For example, if you read the rules like devil reads the bible, you can not place the Rack under the vampire it supplies the blood to, because the Rack in reality is not attached to that vampire. However, in most cases the Rack is placed as it would be attached directly to that vampire.

Same for Edge. You can place the Edge on top of something as a reminder. As long as it doesn't obscure anything and it cannot be mistaken for something it is not.
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Last edit: 09 Mar 2012 11:45 by jhattara.
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