Secret decklist

jhattara wrote:

henrik wrote:

jhattara wrote:

One good example for this are Imbued. When playing Imbued I usually have 2 or 3 stacks of cards, one with the Imbued and the non-mobile attachments, one with tapping attachments (Powers) and convictions. If I'd have all those in a single stack I'd be stalling the game, because I'd have to handle the whole pile of cards every single time I'm doing something with them. Same goes for other decks that use huge amounts of attached cards, especially if some of the attached cards are going to burn, move or tap regularly.

I don't see how this is relevant. Those are cards that should be placed on imbueds and the way you describe it, they are indeed placed on the imbueds. Having more than one stack, for clarity, doesn't hurt.
Having the edge on a card does nothing for clarity, rather the opposite.

This behaviour is explicitly forbidden in that post by LSJ you quoted. Having the edge sitting on top of your library is quite a different thing than having it sit on a controlled card obscuring it from the view.

Not sure what behaviour you refer to. I don't see LSJ talking about multiple stacks in the post.

Either way, I think it's quite clear that unless a rule tells you to put something on your library, you shouldn't put something on your library. It doesn't matter if it's the edge, a rock or a candy.

jhattara wrote:

Sometimes when there are several different counter types and lots of them, several different card types and lots of them, it's actually more clear to separate them a bit.

How much have you played with decks that can put most of their library on the table as permanents? Do you have any idea how much table space it takes to have let's say 10 masters on the table and another 10 cards on each of your 4 minions?

What does my play experience with certain types of decks have to do with this? I thought this was about rules for where to put cards and counters (and the edge).
If table space, heavy wind or something else dictates special conditions I'm sure that's something that can be worked out for that specific tournament.

So you can't use anarch counter, cards like twillight camp and anarch convert only makes them anarch, nothing about counter? You would just have to remember?

jhattara wrote:

I'm talking about not putting attached cards on under the cards they are attached to, but rather next to them.

Ah. That'd be as wrong as putting The Rack on a vampire, sure. I do agree that attempts to keep your play area clear and easy to overlook is a good thing. It should not come at the expense of other players possibly misinterpreting your play area though, which might easily happen if you put the edge on cards, stack locations or events on each other etc.

jhattara wrote:

And as there is nothing that can attach to your library, having some counter on your library is quite explicitly something that does not have effect into your library.

It clearly has some effect, since some people want to do it. Either way, it's not allowed by the rules.

jhattara wrote:

henrik wrote:

If table space, heavy wind or something else dictates special conditions I'm sure that's something that can be worked out for that specific tournament.

Table space and other conditions are exactly what I'm referring to. And if that kind of an exception to a rule is needed, then the rule itself should be scrapped.

It's only needed in extreme cases. Do you honestly think that anything should be allowed to be put anywhere, because somewhere there might be a table space issue with certain decks?

jhattara wrote:

Who cares about where your cards are as long as everyone involved knows their relationship?

Generally, if things aren't a problem you don't need to fix them. There should, however, be rules for the situations when things like these actually become a problem. In this case, there are rules for it. The rules can be said to care about where your cards are.
Personally, as long as it's not on a table where I'm playing or judging I don't care at all how people stack their cards, counters or whatevers. The discussion at hand is about the rules (at least for me), and I think they should be consistent for all tournaments, and not dependent on who's judging at the moment.

jhattara wrote:

Have to remember, if I ever play with you to take an Una, Imbued or Guillaume deck and stack everything as it should be, according to the rules. I'm sorry in advance that all the games timed out, because I will need several minutes each turn to just re-sort my attached cards so that they are all in a single file and still shown properly (or in case of Guillaume that I conquer the whole table for myself)

Not sure why you feel the need to try get this to some kind of personal insult level. Those decks can all be played while following the rules though, without necessarily timing out.
Good bye and thanks for the earlier discussion.