Justicar Retribution

Hakuron wrote:

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

The check is easy:


Justicar Retribution would potentially ping Constanza Vinti as the predator of a Ventrue Deck and so on. Those conditional bleeds can be a factor.

I am not sure about this example: I thought she would get her +2 bleed only when actually bleeding a prey with a Ventrue ...

All bleed bonuses are only applied when actually bleeding. If Justicar Retribution didn't count bleed bonuses, it would only burn minions like the Great Beast and Political Ally who actually have 3 bleed as opposed to +2 bleed. If Constanza's prey has a Ventrue, she is seen as having 3 bleed and burns.

Indeed.

From the Cards Rulings:

Justicar Retribution:
•Counts the bleed amount that each vampire would have when attempting to bleed his prey. [RTR 19980623]

"Justicar Retribution checks the bleed amount the minion would have
when bleeding his or her prey with a successful default bleed action."

Interesting side note is that using equipment is optional, while using retainers is not. So a vampire will be burned with Tasha Morgan and J.S. Simmons Esq., but not with Tasaha Morgan and Laptop Computer.

extrala wrote:

"Justicar Retribution checks the bleed amount the minion would have
when bleeding his or her prey with a successful default bleed action."

Interesting side note is that using equipment is optional, while using retainers is not. So a vampire will be burned with Tasha Morgan and J.S. Simmons Esq., but not with Tasaha Morgan and Laptop Computer.

I'm pretty sure the laptop's not optional, and so will result in the minion burning. Equipment was explicitly made non-optional in VTES Rules Team Rulings, July 7, 1998 , and I'm not aware of anything later that contradicts that.

I was relating to this post from LSJ: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad regrading equipment and Justicar Retribution.
But maybe Pascal can clarify.

Ralf, the ruling you cite here was written five months before the 7/7/98 ruling. That would mean that the 7/7/98 ruling is more current, so the bleed from the Laptop Computer is not optional.