Dance Macabre requirements
09 Jan 2014 07:53 - 09 Jan 2014 08:11 #58405
by D-dennis
I had some color printouts, but not enough. A colour printer was available at the venue, but that would just have delayed the schedule. And timing is an issue (mostly due to people needing to ride a few 100 kilometers after the tournmaent).
edit: I found out about the printer only after the tournament
Replied by D-dennis on topic Re: Dance Macabre requirements
You don't need a ruling if you bring extra color printouts.
I had some color printouts, but not enough. A colour printer was available at the venue, but that would just have delayed the schedule. And timing is an issue (mostly due to people needing to ride a few 100 kilometers after the tournmaent).
edit: I found out about the printer only after the tournament
Last edit: 09 Jan 2014 08:11 by D-dennis.
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09 Jan 2014 08:10 - 09 Jan 2014 08:41 #58406
by D-dennis
With small I meant the number of attendees. 16 players (at this part of the venue) is still feasible for one person to organise, (multi-)judge and play.
Pascal's rulesmongership was not taken into consideration during that event. When judging, I frequently consult people that have more experience than me. I judge as a person, not as a machine, so errors are possible - obviously.
Based on the available resources I had at that time (rulebook, tournament rulesn Judges' guide) I gave a penalty (a warning). If that should have been another penalty, please tell me which of the available ones would have been more appropriate.
Replied by D-dennis on topic Re: Dance Macabre requirements
I wouldn't describe national championship tournament as small event. Even with 16 player it's still a major event imo.
Also I noticed that Pascal was playing in this tournament (according the results he played in finals), so apparently he also agreed that b&w prints were fine.
If vekn rules director says that b&w prints are good enough, does it mean that there is now a ruling for that judges are allowed to let people play on b&w prints if they so choose?
With small I meant the number of attendees. 16 players (at this part of the venue) is still feasible for one person to organise, (multi-)judge and play.
Pascal's rulesmongership was not taken into consideration during that event. When judging, I frequently consult people that have more experience than me. I judge as a person, not as a machine, so errors are possible - obviously.
Based on the available resources I had at that time (rulebook, tournament rulesn Judges' guide) I gave a penalty (a warning). If that should have been another penalty, please tell me which of the available ones would have been more appropriate.
Last edit: 09 Jan 2014 08:41 by D-dennis.
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09 Jan 2014 08:39 #58409
by D-dennis
I did not scrap any tournament rules. The tournament rules were violated, and I solved that with a penalty that I thought to be appropriate. Yes, it is possible that I applied the wrong penalty.
Never have I stated that B&W prints are allowed by default or that such cards would be accepted at future tournaments.
Replied by D-dennis on topic Re: Dance Macabre requirements
There is no way any judge would or could allow a B&W madness of the bard. The reference to banned cards is of no relevance in this case.
Sure it is. If you can scrap rules because you feel like it, so can I! Everyone round to D-dennis's for a sanctioned Return to Innocence tournament! It's totally allowed!
Putting it more simply: you are not empowered to scrap tournament rules because you feel like it. For the same reason I can't allow Madness of the Bard in sanctioned tournaments, you can't allow non-legal cards in tournaments.
I did not scrap any tournament rules. The tournament rules were violated, and I solved that with a penalty that I thought to be appropriate. Yes, it is possible that I applied the wrong penalty.
Never have I stated that B&W prints are allowed by default or that such cards would be accepted at future tournaments.
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09 Jan 2014 08:52 #58411
by Lönkka
D-dennis did a judge decision and I'm OK by it.
I'm pretty sure people know about the b&w print restriction but some are just too lazy/cheap/whatever to print teh required color ones. They might claim ignorance about the matter.
Just to counter this I've been adding to the emails about my tournaments a note on the new set and stressing the fact that you need COLOR prints.
Replied by Lönkka on topic Re: Dance Macabre requirements
Whoa! Even I would CERTAINLY not advocate this.Could you indicate which tournament this was, so that it can be retroactively unsanctioned?
D-dennis did a judge decision and I'm OK by it.
I'm pretty sure people know about the b&w print restriction but some are just too lazy/cheap/whatever to print teh required color ones. They might claim ignorance about the matter.
Just to counter this I've been adding to the emails about my tournaments a note on the new set and stressing the fact that you need COLOR prints.
Finnish
Politics!

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09 Jan 2014 09:53 - 09 Jan 2014 09:53 #58417
by Pascal Bertrand
+
Tournament Rules, 2.7: "The head judge's decision is final."
Given the fact that a judgement had already been given by the head judge when I was made aware of the situation at the event, my position of Rules Director couldn't interact with the decision given.
I can't change, and I also don't want to change, the Tournament Rules during an event, just because I am Rules Director. (Or maybe I should add something in the lines of "If a player is Rules Director, they automatically qualify ot the finals.")
Replied by Pascal Bertrand on topic Re: Dance Macabre requirements
Tournament Rules, 2.6: "The head judge is the final judicial authority at any V:EKN-sanctioned tournament (see section 2.5 - Judge Responsibilities)."Still, as you are rules director of this game, you should not agree when you are asked as a player to let others to use b&w prints. According to previous posts, that was asked from all the players present in that tournament.
Imo you can't support the rules only when you're organizer or judge and don't give a damn about them when you are just a player.
+
Tournament Rules, 2.7: "The head judge's decision is final."
Given the fact that a judgement had already been given by the head judge when I was made aware of the situation at the event, my position of Rules Director couldn't interact with the decision given.
I can't change, and I also don't want to change, the Tournament Rules during an event, just because I am Rules Director. (Or maybe I should add something in the lines of "If a player is Rules Director, they automatically qualify ot the finals.")
Last edit: 09 Jan 2014 09:53 by Pascal Bertrand.
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09 Jan 2014 10:51 #58418
by Haze
Replied by Haze on topic Re: Dance Macabre requirements
well I know what I'm doing from now on!!!! -- bringing an extra set of B&W prints as a bait n switch to troll tournament organizers and see how they react.
I must confess that all this time I've only been turning my cards 82.5 degrees to the side. this is only an 11/12 ratio of following the requirements, which makes me just as guilty as the earlier Madness of the Bard example. jamesatzephyr, I request thy assistance, for we must retroactively unsanction all tournaments I have ever played in - including several NACs. it's for the good of the game, and the VEKN as a whole, I trust you understand.
4.7. Tapped Cards
If a card must be tapped as a part of the game rules, it must be turned approximately 90 degrees from the normal position.
I must confess that all this time I've only been turning my cards 82.5 degrees to the side. this is only an 11/12 ratio of following the requirements, which makes me just as guilty as the earlier Madness of the Bard example. jamesatzephyr, I request thy assistance, for we must retroactively unsanction all tournaments I have ever played in - including several NACs. it's for the good of the game, and the VEKN as a whole, I trust you understand.
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