file Govern(superior) and other Ventrue questions.

30 Aug 2017 07:38 - 30 Aug 2017 07:42 #83291 by Dada
How do you check in tournaments that people are actually keep obeying(pun intended) the age rule for superior govern? Seems way too easy to have lets say 10cap in play who keeps bloating with the same 10cap in uncontrolled with no intention of ever bringing him to play... (Yes I have trust issues in card games)

Weighted walking stick: How many times can you actually hit with it(str 1)? 3 or 5

Blackhorse Tanner's speciality: On EVERY players turn? or just yours?

Why is hidden strength played so much? Just to prevent aggra? Or can you can you trump other players Taste of Vitae with it? I Don't understand why this prevent is better than lets say superior mettle that actually prevents dmg.

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Last edit: 30 Aug 2017 07:42 by Dada.

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30 Aug 2017 07:54 - 30 Aug 2017 07:59 #83292 by Kraus

How do you check in tournaments that people are actually keep obeying(pun intended) the age rule for superior govern? Seems way too easy to have lets say 10cap in play who keeps bloating with the same 10cap in uncontrolled with no intention of ever bringing him to play... (Yes I have trust issues in card games)

In VtES you should try to regain a hint of your faith in humanity, as backwards as it may sound. :) Peeps who play VtES are great sports by default and don't cheat.

In tournaments though you can call for a judge to check if the target is legal. You can monitor the plays on your own as well if the player brings the target out eventually. If they just pump the pool back up it's up for the judge.

But people don't cheat in this game.

...or I'm having an untrust issue.

Weighted walking stick: How many times can you actually hit with it(str 1)? 3 or 5

3. Each Str1 strike removes 2 tokens from it.

Blackhorse Tanner's speciality: On EVERY players turn? or just yours?

Every player.

Why is hidden strength played so much? Just to prevent aggra? Or can you can you trump other players Taste of Vitae with it? I Don't understand why this prevent is better than lets say superior mettle that actually prevents dmg.

It's a versatile card to trump agg that's more than 1 and Taste of Vitae. Superior Mettle is problematic in that it can't be cycled as well against strikes of 1 (most common thing) and will 'only' prevent you some damage. That Press in a 'grinder' type deck works as an offensive as well.

Compared to Indominability Hidden Strength keeps you alive better, but sadly can't be cycled for an offensive press when you don't take damage (due to long range or dodge as a strike). Both have uses.

Superior Mettle is one of those cards that has a great effect but the lack of versatility has pushed it out of favor. It's not a bad card at all though, and if your metagame packs a lot Enkidus and trap/torn signpost or something Superior Mettle might definitely be for you.

Trap+Drawing Out the Beast+Superior Mettle on a +Str vampire is hilarious, as long as you find a way around combat ends.

Versatility is often key in VtES, big numbers not that much. Even though they're insane amounts of fun... ;)

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Last edit: 30 Aug 2017 07:59 by Kraus.

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30 Aug 2017 09:30 #83293 by Dada
Thanks for the quick answer, was really helpful!

I really need to just chill it seems :D
Monitoring governs in tournaments seems pretty easy anyway...

And as you already guessed it, my meta is full of torn signposts and carrion crows.
Thats why the classic-prevent-package is odd to me. But i really like the idea of trumping a taste with hidden strenght.

So then, if Blackhorse is so OP(basically: I'll keep that, I'll keep that, I'll keep that, nah this one is bad for the given situation->use the scry. on EVERY turn. ESPECIALLY with Heart of cheating. Why are people play Lodin so much? Is the prevent and 2nd trads really that good in a deck that can already play eagles sights if need be.

I understand that it is a different deck to play Lodin and princes than to play Owain/Blackhorse more reactive one. But if TCG:s have taught me anything it's that draw/scry/value wins you games.

Also why the hell are Nephandus and Tupdogs so expensive when eveything else in this game is dirt cheap :D (give me my mages!)

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30 Aug 2017 10:26 - 30 Aug 2017 10:51 #83294 by Bloodartist

Compared to Indominability Hidden Strength keeps you alive better, but sadly can't be cycled for an offensive press when you don't take damage (due to long range or dodge as a strike). Both have uses.

Superior Mettle is one of those cards that has a great effect but the lack of versatility has pushed it out of favor. It's not a bad card at all though, and if your metagame packs a lot Enkidus and trap/torn signpost or something Superior Mettle might definitely be for you.


EDIT: Oops, thats an interesting point. I thought that Hidden strength is simply a strictly better version of indomitability. That said, I think that its an extremely fringe scenario where I would need indomitability for that, due to prevalence of combat ends. If I'm making a combat deck, I'm definitely going to have something else against combat ends than just indomitability.. If I'm not making a combat deck, well I don't plan on winning with strikes of 1 anyway.. Thats just my opinion though.

OT:
There are situations where superior mettle is better than other options, namely multiple round combat with a +str opponent. For example warghoul with trap. However, it does almost nothing(still prevents aggro) in 'default' combat where combatants strike for 1. Hidden strength and indomitability do, prevent that one with a press. (leads to a 2-for-1 or 1-for-0 exchange if no other combat cards are played)

Another weakness to point out in superior mettle is that it doesn't prevent damage from additional strikes, only the from the initial strike.

If you wanted to protect yourself from additional strikes, you should play Rolling with punches (which on the other hand doesn't affect subsequent rounds of combat). I guess it would be a meta call, whether you expect celerity+guns or trapping warghouls for example.

Versatility is often key in VtES, big numbers not that much. Even though they're insane amounts of fun... ;)

Agreed. That said, I opt for both in my Matasuntha deck ;) "I was born with big numbers!"

ps. If you are planning a combat deck its very important that you prepare for aggravated damage SOMEHOW though. Even then it may not be enough (cough rotschreck cough)

If you are planning for example ventrue vote deck that wants some kind of defense for those unwanted combat situations, I'd recommend rolling with punches or hidden strength, which both help against that "worst case scenario" within a single round of combat. Especially assuming you have also combat ends. For example, if opponent goes for torn signpost+superior immortal grapple, you can prevent some damage (all with rolling with punches) and hope he doesn't have another grapple so you can combat end the following round. Maneuvers+combat ends are also valid options.

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Last edit: 30 Aug 2017 10:51 by Bloodartist.

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30 Aug 2017 13:07 #83296 by ReverendRevolver
Regarding nephundi and tupdogs:
They are cheesy as hell, and you need several compared to other things for a deck. Crypt wise, tupdogs and converts are the pricey things you need lots of, but converts you need like 4, tupdogs more, since they come, they leave a crater where one or two minions were, then they leave and flip a new crypt card. Nephundi are allies but not transient like tupdogs, so you get a few up and use unmasking and they wall or act. Both weren't very common when printed either.
The most useful allies are Carlton vanwick and Jake Washington (who is a Master card) and they are expensive too, due to demand and utility.
Before heirs to the blood like, rock cat costed $30usd so I only had one, as I wouldn't buy it.
Demand and ease of finding are what drives cost.

I love decks with Dom and for. Second trade is an ENORMOUS help to anything, and in decks where you plan on being around and winning mid and or late game, built in prevent is helpful. Unlike other tcgs, vtes has four other ppl at a table to unbalance things, so saying lodin second trade and owain/black horse are 2 different decks isn't the whole story. Look at my FAVORITE precon only vamp, Gotsdam the tired warrior: all of in clan for ventrue and ! ventrue, can play army of rats, built in SCE, built in "I can't be frenzied" which stops rotshreck , deep song, terror frenzy, and other annoyances.he can hang out with Cam walls or ! ventrue grinders, or ventrue bleeders )with the guy who pitches cards to stop getting rushed, whose name evades me right now...)
There's just a lot to consider, so important things become versatility and reliability.

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30 Aug 2017 17:57 - 30 Aug 2017 17:59 #83300 by TwoRazorReign

How do you check in tournaments that people are actually keep obeying(pun intended) the age rule for superior govern? Seems way too easy to have lets say 10cap in play who keeps bloating with the same 10cap in uncontrolled with no intention of ever bringing him to play... (Yes I have trust issues in card games)

In VtES you should try to regain a hint of your faith in humanity, as backwards as it may sound. :) Peeps who play VtES are great sports by default and don't cheat.

In tournaments though you can call for a judge to check if the target is legal. You can monitor the plays on your own as well if the player brings the target out eventually. If they just pump the pool back up it's up for the judge.

But people don't cheat in this game.


And I have a $500 Aaron's Feeding Razor I want to sell you.

Making requirements for which no other players can check to ensure those requirements are being followed is not ideal at all. And it's just plain weird.
Last edit: 30 Aug 2017 17:59 by TwoRazorReign.

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