file Govern(superior) and other Ventrue questions.

01 Sep 2017 05:56 #83323 by TwoRazorReign

But, its what we have to live with. As long as there are no big prizes, I guess there is not enough incentive to cheat.

In casual games this really doesn't matter (and you can always ask the player to reveal the card he Governed down to after the game...)


Why would the be cheater obligated to reveal it? The game is over at that point. What rule says they have to reveal it after the game?

In tournament games you can always ask a judge to come over to check legality of the target of Govern/ first equipment / whatever. No biggie.


Wouldn't calling the judge over for every single superior govern in a game totally be a hassle and definitely annoy other players?

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01 Sep 2017 06:07 #83324 by TwoRazorReign

Now, without revealing the whole card, the bottom right corner can be revealed without showing the whole minion if needed, and the card type symbol can be shown to bystanders if needed in other situations.


I don't think any of this is legal. A crypt card is not to be revealed, even partially or to a third party, until it has been influenced out.

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01 Sep 2017 10:09 #83325 by Kraus
I'm just making sure here:

Do you have a troublesome amount of experience with cheaters, and it's a problem thus, or is this a strictly theoretical dilemma?

"Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!"
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01 Sep 2017 11:02 #83326 by ur_vampire
I think (and hope) its theoretical

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01 Sep 2017 11:13 - 01 Sep 2017 11:14 #83327 by Kraus

I think (and hope) its theoretical

I'm guessing as well, since in my time of 12 or so years of active VtES playing, active tournament participation, working years as a local organizer and after attending two European Championships, I've NEVER witnessed cheating (that I can remember of).

"Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!"
-Nalia De-Arnise

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Last edit: 01 Sep 2017 11:14 by Kraus.

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01 Sep 2017 11:21 - 01 Sep 2017 11:22 #83328 by Lönkka

But, its what we have to live with. As long as there are no big prizes, I guess there is not enough incentive to cheat.

In casual games this really doesn't matter (and you can always ask the player to reveal the card he Governed down to after the game...)


Why would the be cheater obligated to reveal it? The game is over at that point. What rule says they have to reveal it after the game?

You know the answers to these questions.

There is no rule.
And of course the cheater isn't obliged to reveal anything.
However, what motivation other than to hide his cheating would a player have to not reveal the target of a Govern (or similar) now that the casual game is over? (in tournament environment it would be divulging info, but like said, that is what there are judges for.)

My reaction to such suspicious activity would be:
"Hey, now that the game is over, could you please let us see that/those uncontrolled minion(s)?"
"No."
"K." (=this reads: "Nice playing with you. No need to bother coming over ever again, mate")

In tournament games you can always ask a judge to come over to check legality of the target of Govern/ first equipment / whatever. No biggie.


Wouldn't calling the judge over for every single superior govern in a game totally be a hassle and definitely annoy other players?


You tell me.
When I'm judging I certainly wouldn't be annoyed by it.

However I think that in most instances Governs (etc) which are used for bloating tend to be targeting same uncontrolled minion so after judge checks the minion out there probably wouldn't be any need to check the same target again.

And it is not like in vast majority of tournaments judges do not have plenty of spare time to take care of this if needed.


And for my part I'm ending this discussion, which is closing in on nitpickery, right here.
Hard pressed for time already...


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Last edit: 01 Sep 2017 11:22 by Lönkka.
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