file Govern(superior) and other Ventrue questions.

30 Aug 2017 18:37 #83301 by Cat_in_Exile
I've never done a tournament, but these kind of requirements seem like the kind of thing judges should check without having to be asked. No need to risk player resentment over suggesting someone might be cheating.

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30 Aug 2017 20:26 #83302 by Hakuron

I've never done a tournament, but these kind of requirements seem like the kind of thing judges should check without having to be asked. No need to risk player resentment over suggesting someone might be cheating.

There is no need for it. Plus, it would be way to complicate to call for a judge for every Govern to check if the younger clause is fulfilled. Plus, there are three to four players at the same table who would be able to recall which vampire played the Govern. At some points V:tES is pretty much like chess, and many players have very good memories.

I remember that I forced the judge to acknowledge that I made a legal choice using Mistress Fanchon's special in the finals of a national championship. I wanted to show that I played correctly, but everybody else did not care or got annoyed (especially the judge ^^).
Thus having said: V:tES is a game where you trust other players. At least that is the way I experienced it.

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30 Aug 2017 21:39 - 31 Aug 2017 10:50 #83304 by Bloodartist


And I have a $500 Aaron's Feeding Razor I want to sell you.

Making requirements for which no other players can check to ensure those requirements are being followed is not ideal at all. And it's just plain weird.


It is weird. It is simply bad design to make card resolution depend on a player's honesty, This would not fly if VTES was a game like pro tour Magic where you play for of money prizes of several thousands of dollars... (Let it be said that in those kind magic tournaments theres a judge sitting right next to the final tables always and they are streamed) All it would have taken was a bit different wording on the card designers part.

For example, if a MtG card allows you to search for a specific type of card in your deck and put it in your hand, you need to reveal it to the other player(s) so they can simply confirm that it is of the required type and not something else. (This is written in the card itself)

Compare this to VTES card vast wealth which allows you to equip with the first equipment you find in your deck going from top to bottom.... but you are not actually forced to reveal those cards... so its up to your honesty (or a judge standing behind your back) that what you equip actually IS the first equipment you come across and not a different one.

It would've been simple to word the cards so that there was no problem... designers didn't do it. :unsure: But, its what we have to live with. As long as there are no big prizes, I guess there is not enough incentive to cheat.

A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing



Last edit: 31 Aug 2017 10:50 by Bloodartist.

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31 Aug 2017 00:14 - 31 Aug 2017 00:18 #83305 by Boris The Blade

Why are people play Lodin so much? Is the prevent and 2nd trads really that good in a deck that can already play eagles sights if need be.

Second Tradition, and vote defense. Grinders are typically more toolbox than dedicated blockers, so they are not that interested in Eagle Sight, and they might not be able to block a stealth vote deck that takes all its actions with a base +1 stealth. Having your own votes on the table provides an extra layer of protection against votes.
Last edit: 31 Aug 2017 00:18 by Boris The Blade.

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31 Aug 2017 20:59 #83319 by Lönkka

But, its what we have to live with. As long as there are no big prizes, I guess there is not enough incentive to cheat.

In casual games this really doesn't matter (and you can always ask the player to reveal the card he Governed down to after the game...)

In tournament games you can always ask a judge to come over to check legality of the target of Govern/ first equipment / whatever. No biggie.

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01 Sep 2017 00:33 #83321 by ReverendRevolver
Cheaters cheat, and fortunately most of our local cheaters sort of floated out of our player base in central Ohio before it got out of hand. I'm speaking of an individual who was known to scoop dice in WHFB and say"oops, I meant shoot with these first..." Just because he rolled bad.

Now, without revealing the whole card, the bottom right corner can be revealed without showing the whole minion if needed, and the card type symbol can be shown to bystanders if needed in other situations.

I've found players are not likely to cheat on these. Vtes players will break deals like nothing, but seldom consider cheating a govern Target.....

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