Govern(superior) and other Ventrue questions.

Blooded wrote:

Worrying about cheating is usually the result of thinking about cheating. Most (if not all) VtES players could not be bothered to cheat as it would not give accurate data on their deck and play style. Tracking which card is Governed to is quite simple, and is just a matter of whether you intrinsically think people are dicks, or they are being actively suspiciously acting, and you need to know now, versus just playing on and keeping stuff in mind.

If I have to either assume people are dicks and will cheat or be conscious of suspicious behavior, that's not at all fun and probably should be fixed. Govern is a signature card, and it's a problem that this is the only way to check if the card is played legally. Not a good look for the game in my opinion.

TwoRazorReign wrote:

If I have to either assume people are dicks and will cheat

You don't. that is a choice YOU make....

TwoRazorReign wrote:

or be conscious of suspicious behavior, that's not at all fun and probably should be fixed.

Fix needing to be aware of game state? How many games have you been in where somebody cheated, excluding the games where YOU cheated?

TwoRazorReign wrote:

Govern is a signature card, and it's a problem that this is the only way to check if the card is played legally. Not a good look for the game in my opinion.

I have so rarely heard anyone complain about this aspect of the game, and every time I have heard someone complaining about it, it was either someone who had been proven to be a cheater, or was a self admitted cheater. Seems the anecdotal evidence holds true still....

The issue here is not that someone CAN cheat, it is that YOU cheated, and now are fixated upon cheating. Guilty consciences and all that

Blooded wrote:

TwoRazorReign wrote:

If I have to either assume people are dicks and will cheat

You don't. that is a choice YOU make....

TwoRazorReign wrote:

or be conscious of suspicious behavior, that's not at all fun and probably should be fixed.

Fix needing to be aware of game state? How many games have you been in where somebody cheated, excluding the games where YOU cheated?

I don't know how many games I've been involved in where somebody Governed down to an illegal target. And neither do you really, because it's not something one can check in this game.

TwoRazorReign wrote:

Govern is a signature card, and it's a problem that this is the only way to check if the card is played legally. Not a good look for the game in my opinion.
I have so rarely heard anyone complain about this aspect of the game, and every time I have heard someone complaining about it, it was either someone who had been proven to be a cheater, or was a self admitted cheater. Seems the anecdotal evidence holds true still....

The issue here is not that someone CAN cheat, it is that YOU cheated, and now are fixated upon cheating. Guilty consciences and all that

I also won the game. You call it cheating, I call it exploiting a flaw in the game. I think the flaw should be fixed.

TwoRazorReign wrote:

I also won the game. You call it cheating, I call it exploiting a flaw in the game. I think the flaw should be fixed.

Sorry, we don't just get to change the meanings of words because they suit our guilty consciences to do so. You did not WIN. You cheated. Vast difference. The moment you knowingly broke the rules you forfetied the game. The fact that you were enough of a dishonest, selfish, entitled jackass to do so is no one's fault but yours.

You were dishonest for cheating, selfish because you ignored the fact that 4 other people agreed to spend 2 hours with you playing a game, under the agreement that you follow the rules of the game (else why play? Do you cheat at single player computer games as well?) Entitled because you so believed you had to win that you were dishonest and untrustworthy, and now want everyone else to change the entire game, because you are a lying, cheating untrusting, asshat?

Blooded wrote:

TwoRazorReign wrote:

I also won the game. You call it cheating, I call it exploiting a flaw in the game. I think the flaw should be fixed.

Sorry, we don't just get to change the meanings of words because they suit our guilty consciences to do so. You did not WIN. You cheated. Vast difference. The moment you knowingly broke the rules you forfetied the game. The fact that you were enough of a dishonest, selfish, entitled jackass to do so is no one's fault but yours.

You were dishonest for cheating, selfish because you ignored the fact that 4 other people agreed to spend 2 hours with you playing a game, under the agreement that you follow the rules of the game (else why play? Do you cheat at single player computer games as well?) Entitled because you so believed you had to win that you were dishonest and untrustworthy, and now want everyone else to change the entire game, because you are a lying, cheating untrusting, asshat?

I was playing a one-player game two handed and Governed to an illegal target. So I technically cheated, but I was only cheating myself. Haha!

But yeah, I still think it's a flaw. That's just my opinion. I just think it'd be too easy for people to cheat in a real game.

TwoRazorReign wrote:

I was playing a one-player game two handed and Governed to an illegal target. So I technically cheated, but I was only cheating myself. Haha!

SO you claim. Yet here:

TwoRazorReign wrote:

I've done it. More than once. And nobody suspected a thing any of the times. I won many of those games too. Mind you, this was 20 or so years ago, and I wouldn't cheat like that nowadays. So, to me, it's a problem with the game that I was allowed to exploit it.

So you are now a proven cheater, with a record of lying about it, and then trying to hide your lying. Then when caught out you try to say it was only once after stating it happened multiple times.

The problem here is NOT the game or it's rules, it is YOU. You feel guilty for being a cheating cheaty McCheater, and now think everyone else acts that way too. Stop being a lying, cheating asshat and there won't be a problem. Old quote: "If you want to change the world, start with yourself."