file Govern(superior) and other Ventrue questions.

13 Sep 2017 17:54 #83536 by Lönkka
Read it what you will, but apparently it is not enough for you if someone doesn't have time to endlessly yammer on and on about a topic that is merely flogging a dead horse

No, you have to read more to it where there is nothing more to be seen.


I really really do not have time to blabber about a subject that I've already said all I can say. So I let people know that that's it for me. Nothing else to it.

Let's have an Appolonius here to loosen the atmosphere, m'okay?


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15 Sep 2017 01:37 #83547 by ReverendRevolver
Lonnka, if that had rhymed, I may have laughed long enough to loose conciusness.

On a related note, if a proven cheater is at a game, is it fair to treat them like imbued table poison and have 4v1 until they are ousted and then play vtes?
I haven't really had that happen ever, but anything is possible...
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15 Sep 2017 12:54 #83550 by GreyB

On a related note, if a proven cheater is at a game, is it fair to treat them like imbued table poison and have 4v1 until they are ousted and then play vtes?


Technically a person forfeits the game the moment he /she knowingly cheats. Ganging up on a cheater is actually a very courteous thing to do, at least the cheater can still play and cheat some more :P

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16 Sep 2017 12:08 #83562 by TwoRazorReign

Read it what you will, but apparently it is not enough for you if someone doesn't have time to endlessly yammer on and on about a topic that is merely flogging a dead horse

No, you have to read more to it where there is nothing more to be seen.


I really really do not have time to blabber about a subject that I've already said all I can say. So I let people know that that's it for me. Nothing else to it.

Let's have an Appolonius here to loosen the atmosphere, m'okay?


So, like, my point is there is no reason to reply with something like this. You can just not reply. to recap: I think that not being able to check the younger vampire restriction on a superior govern is a weird flaw in the game. You feel very strongly that bringing up this point is flogging a dead horse. That's all well and good, and I appreciate your viewpoint.

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16 Sep 2017 13:43 #83563 by self biased

to recap: I think that not being able to check the younger vampire restriction on a superior govern is a weird flaw in the game.


this isn't really a rules discussion at this point, but a discussion on the philosophy of game design.

What you're asking here is
'Where does the responsibility of fair play lie? On the game designers or the players?' The answer is always going to be "both," but each one of us is going to draw that line in a different place to divide that responsibility. I've had this discussions many, many, many times in regard to Warhammer 40k base rules and codex design. Almost exclusively in those discussions I've placed greater responsibility on the game designers to ensure fairer play through design of the game. There is an ocean of difference between Warhammer 40k and V:TES, though.

I will agree with you that it seems an unusual design choice that Govern works the way it does. However, when the question is
"But what if they cheat at the game using that?" Don't we as players have a responsibility to follow the rules of the game as best we can? and to, you know, NOT CHEAT?

I don't mean this as an attack in any way, dude. If you want to watch some profoundly egregious cheating at a game look up "Warhammer 40k Cheat to Win" on youtube. Bottom line is that Cheaters Gonna Cheat, and it's falls to players unwilling to put up with people who cheat in their group.
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16 Sep 2017 16:39 #83566 by Boris The Blade

this isn't really a rules discussion at this point, but a discussion on the philosophy of game design.

What you're asking here is
'Where does the responsibility of fair play lie? On the game designers or the players?'

No. This has nothing to do with player intent. Misplays do happen whether we want it or not, and the question is: how to make sure that the game is played according to the rules? In a video game, the computer checks. In a competitive game, the ref checks. In a causal game, it is up to the players to check on each other. So you can have a hidden state, you can have restrictive rules, but you cannot have restrictions on the hidden state.
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