file New round structure - OPTION B - we'd like your feedback!

22 May 2018 18:53 #87332 by ReverendRevolver
How is this still an argument over grapple?

The whole point of option B was simplicity, less parts than A.

Both ideas were not to redesign combat.

B opens a window for "pres" wider.

Inside of Bs steps, IG can still be worded to play as it is. "At the end of manuever step, once opposing minion declines to maneuver, if range is close." You decline to manuever. Impulse passes to me, I decline maneuvering and we are in the end of maneuvering. You can play blood to water, I can play grapple.
It uses impulse, it works like bleed actions(decline block, you can pump, you can't retract your pump because I bounce, I can't retract my decline because I suddenly realize I can't bounce, etc...)

But even if not, this argument isn't that logical; how many manuevers do we pack in dedicated S:CE vote decks? Setite stealthbleed(probably less than 5, SbtN just saying) ? So guns vs grapple? Guns don't want to be close.

I don't get it, we could suggest another option afterall......

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
22 May 2018 21:02 - 22 May 2018 21:49 #87344 by elotar


Honestly, I don't think there is much room to even attempt baiting your opponent into playing specific cards/ making poor choices. For the most part VTES rules doesn't even allow it, due to the strict sequence in which cards have to be played.


In my !Malks I have 1 Coma. Uncle George was rushed by Stanislava with Assault Rifle, range was set to close to avoid no trace, seen played by me in numbers previously, and then I've played coma!

Got, I think, just 1 VP that game, but with a stile!:lol:

:splat: NC Russia
:DEM::san::nec::cap4:
Last edit: 22 May 2018 21:49 by elotar.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
23 May 2018 06:16 - 23 May 2018 11:00 #87369 by elotar
...
Suggestions 1 and 2 removed. Version 3 is too good to have them.
...

:splat: NC Russia
:DEM::san::nec::cap4:
Last edit: 23 May 2018 11:00 by elotar.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
23 May 2018 10:23 - 23 May 2018 12:34 #87376 by elotar
3. Goal here is both clarity and removal of dumb "pass-pass-pass-pass" sequences. Credit goes to BloodArtist for idea to remove a timing windows.

Here we go:

Disclaimer: I'm not insisting on exact wording of names of the phases: :cheer:

Three phases of the round:
1. Prelude
2. Running naked with chainsaw
3. Epilogue

Strike, Maneuver and Press cards can only be played in the Running Naked phase, all other timing rules are tossed out of the window - if conditions are met than combat card can be played any time during the combat

There are basic impulse rules used, when both players pass phase ends.

Side positive effect - now all this "Strike with press and optional maneuver" cards are actually resolved as played!

At the end of Running Naked phase strikes are resolved in the current order, if any vampire has not announced special strike than hand strike is used.

For clarity I would propose announcement of additional strikes also before the resolution of the initial ones, but it's not a key issue

Inbuilt maneuver in weapons (and goggles?) should be changed into "initial range in the first round of combat is long". It's quite logical, actually

Prevent and press should be reworded into "press and..."

IG even need not to be reworded - it can be played at any phase before strikes are announced to have an effect.

You can still use a maneuver to avoid damage but you still can't use strikes other than hand strikes.
NB - "Slam-IG before he has impulse" is not working on .44 user, because you now can't play IG after choosing strike. But other maneuver + IG if a fair game :lol:


For clarity I would also revert ruling about optionality of equipment - so .44 would switch basic strike for 2R. It may help us to remove mandatory strike announcement - you, obviously, will need to announce strikes from card played or optional abilities used, but all other strikes will be resolved "automatically".

So for basic IG combat we had:
A: Torn Signpost, pass
B: pass
A: pass
B: Er. what should I do? Where are we?
A: It's maneuver phase.
B: O! fine. pass
A: IG
B: Crap. No Charismatic Aura. Pass?
A: Hand strike
B: hand strike, no Claws
A: fine. Pass? Should I formally pass at this stage?
B: Dunnow. removed 3 counters
A: Sideslip
B: Shouldn't it be played before I've removed blood?
A: Gaa, dunnow. I may not play it, I think this is the card I've drawn last.
B: Forget it
A: Fine. Blur
B: ...
A: ?
B: You should announce your strike
A: heh. hand strike
B: Removed 3 counters.
A: hand strike
B: Removed 3 counters
A: no press
B: pass
A: Disarm
B: I'm really feeling the pain of my vampire
...

Now we will have:
A: Torn Signpost, IG, pass
B: pass
A: Blur, pass
B: You are cool. pass
A: sideslip
B: removed 9 counters
A: Disarm

Second one looks much better to be me.

There, obviously, will be some consequences, especially into dedicated combat vs dedicated combat interactions (thoughts about it gave me inspiration for a name of phase 2), we may accept them as is, or aim to reword some cards to get desired effect as some lasting project for a foreseeable future. We are not pressed to rush this - if SCE/counter-SCE thing works, the game will run fine.

:splat: NC Russia
:DEM::san::nec::cap4:
Last edit: 23 May 2018 12:34 by elotar.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
23 May 2018 12:57 #87383 by LivesByProxy
I think you should have kept suggestions 1 and 2, if only for posterity. They may also help your point or provide clarification.

Also, while some such as myself may want combat to be more open ended with less steps, the majority of VTES players here would lose their mind if your suggestions were adopted, even if they aren't that wild in theory.

:gang: :CEL: :FOR: :PRO: :cap6: Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean :PRO: until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex :AUS:, Obfuscate :OBF:, or Potence :POT: for the current action.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
23 May 2018 13:01 #87385 by Ankha

IG even need not to be reworded - it can be played at any phase before strikes are announced to have an effect.

You can still use a maneuver to avoid damage but you still can't use strikes other than hand strikes.
NB - "Slam-IG before he has impulse" is not working on .44 user, because you now can't play IG after choosing strike. But other maneuver + IG if a fair game :lol:

So, if the acting player plays Aid from Bats as their first card, the opponent can't play Immortal Grapple because it's too late?

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
Moderators: AnkhaKraus
Time to create page: 0.074 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum