file new player, few questions

12 Feb 2021 10:48 #101601 by Lönkka
Replied by Lönkka on topic new player, few questions

Shukran wrote: I don't get , then, what " declining" really means. I thought that attempting to block would negate the decline.


Decline (to block).
The player announces that he is not blocking after which he can NOT decide to try to block again. Even if, say, the other player decides to increase the bleed.

You could also try to block, if the acting player plays more stealth (or some similar effect) and then say "No block", "Not blocking" or whatever and the effect would be just the same as if you had declined without even trying to block.

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12 Feb 2021 12:23 #101603 by Shukran
Replied by Shukran on topic new player, few questions

Lönkka wrote:

Shukran wrote: I don't get , then, what " declining" really means. I thought that attempting to block would negate the decline.


Decline (to block).
The player announces that he is not blocking after which he can NOT decide to try to block again. Even if, say, the other player decides to increase the bleed.

You could also try to block, if the acting player plays more stealth (or some similar effect) and then say "No block", "Not blocking" or whatever and the effect would be just the same as if you had declined without even trying to block.


A locked vampire can use on the qui vive, try to block, decline to block if out-stealthed then play deflection?


Can u clarifying me the usage of dreams of the sphynx out of turn too?

I need to understand mechanics that allows these tricks

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12 Feb 2021 13:29 #101604 by Timo
Replied by Timo on topic new player, few questions

Name: On the Qui Vive
[Third:C/PB2/PM2/PTr2, KoT:C/PB3/PM3/PT2, HttB:PKia3/PSam4, SP:DoF4/LB4/PoS2/PwN6, 25th:3, FB:PM5/PN2/PTo5/PTr3/PV3, V5:PM5/PN5/PTr4]
Cardtype: Reaction
Only usable by a locked minion. A minion can play only one On the Qui Vive between their unlock phases.
This minion wakes (they ignore the requirement to be unlocked for playing reaction cards and attempting to block until the end of the action). If this minion is an ally, they do not unlock as normal during their next unlock phase.
Artist: David Day


The important part is "until the end of the action".

It means that a waked minion is allowed to attempt to block and/or play reaction cards as long as the action is not over.

Some corner case scenario could have :
Minion A bleed
Minion B is locked and play on the qui vive and attempt to block
Succesfull block
Minion A play a card to continue the action as if unblocked (e. g. Form of Mist)
B decline the block and play deflection to his prey
His prey "bounce back" playing his own deflection to B
Per bounces card text B is allowed to block again even if he allready declined to block and per On the Qui Vive card text is still allowed to attempt to block and/or play reaction cards
B attempt to block again
A out-stealth him
B play a telepathic Misdirection to bounce again to his prey.

For the dreams of the sphinx, technically, during every phase of the game, the acting player should give back the impulse to every other players in order to let them play an effect such has dreams of the sphinx.

During your unlock phase you have to give the opportunity to other players to play effects
(locking the dreams, burning a burn option, unlocking a minion with homunculus etc...)
During your master phase again
During your minion phase it becomes technically tricky because there is a lot of technical micro-phase
Before taking an action you have to give the opportunity to other player to lock the dreams or the Heidelberg Castle
After announcing an action, you have to give the impulse during the "as the action is announced" and then during the blocking phase
And during combat it becomes again more technical because of every minute phases like "pre-range", "choosing range", "pre-strike" and so on.

As a rule of thumb, you have the opportunity to lock your dream in every single micro-phase except the "as the card is played" where canceling effect and wake effect are the only one allowed.

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12 Feb 2021 14:22 - 12 Feb 2021 14:25 #101605 by inm8
Replied by inm8 on topic new player, few questions

Tadori wrote:

inm8 wrote:

Ankha wrote:

Shukran wrote: 3)
player B uses enkil cow window tapping sphynx , then doing the action with the vampire.

It works once again with the impulse. Let's say B wants to act during A's turn. Once A has no more actions to perform with his/her minions, A gives the impulse to B who can use the Dreams to draw 2 cards. Then the impulse goes back to A. A can pass once again and B has the impulse to use the Enkil Cog.

See sequencing www.vekn.net/rulebook/2-card-types#sequencing


Doesn’t Enkil Cog interrupt player A’s minion phase temporarily making player B the acting Methuselah?
If it does, doesn’t that mean that If player B locks Enkil Cog and before announcing the action with the vampire who has the Enkil Cog locks the Dreams of the Sphinx to get +2 hand size doesn’t pass the impulse to player A? I would have thought the impulse only passes to player A after the announcing of the action that the vampire with the triggered Enkil Cog will take and no more effects are wished to be played by player B as per the sequencing rule.

Enkil Cog


Enkil Cog doesn't make Player B an active Methuselah it allows a minion to act in active Methuselah (Player A) round.

Sorry for the double post


You might be right but i can´t find anything in the rules that define the "acting Methuselah" as being the Methuselah which turn it is...as per my interpretation the "acting Methuselah" is the one currently using its influence over its minions to have them attempt to perform actions (which normally can only be done during ones own turn).

Ankha can we please have an official answer to the above, thanks.
Last edit: 12 Feb 2021 14:25 by inm8. Reason: correcting the sentence gramar

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13 Feb 2021 18:50 #101613 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic new player, few questions

inm8 wrote:

Ankha wrote:

Shukran wrote: 3)
player B uses enkil cow window tapping sphynx , then doing the action with the vampire.

It works once again with the impulse. Let's say B wants to act during A's turn. Once A has no more actions to perform with his/her minions, A gives the impulse to B who can use the Dreams to draw 2 cards. Then the impulse goes back to A. A can pass once again and B has the impulse to use the Enkil Cog.

See sequencing www.vekn.net/rulebook/2-card-types#sequencing


Doesn’t Enkil Cog interrupt player A’s minion phase temporarily making player B the acting Methuselah?
If it does, doesn’t that mean that If player B locks Enkil Cog and before announcing the action with the vampire who has the Enkil Cog locks the Dreams of the Sphinx to get +2 hand size doesn’t pass the impulse to player A? I would have thought the impulse only passes to player A after the announcing of the action that the vampire with the triggered Enkil Cog will take and no more effects are wished to be played by player B as per the sequencing rule.

The way the question was formulated, I understood that OP wanted to use the Dreams when A passes the impulse, not during an action performed during A's turn.

As soon as B's minions is performing an action during A's turn, B is the acting Methuselah for the duration of the action.

At every stage, the acting Methuselah has the priority to play cards or effects. Usually, the acting Methuselah is the Methuselah whose turn it is, but in some cases, a minion controlled by another Methuselah can act outside its controller’s turn; in that case, the acting Methuselah is the controller of the acting minion for the duration of the action.

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13 Feb 2021 21:05 #101614 by inm8
Replied by inm8 on topic new player, few questions
Thanks Ankha for clarifying that the the methuselah that is currently having a minion attempting an action is considered the "acting Methuselah".

Sorry for nitpicking .... few more questions:

1) When player B triggers Enkil Cog does that make him the "acting Methuselah" immediately?

2) Can player B trigger the use of Dreams of the Sphinx before attempting an action in the Enkil Cog time window?

3) If no on 1) and yes on 2) above does player A get the impulse back if player B uses the Dreams of the Sphinx before player B can have his minion take an action?

4) If player A gets the impulse on 3) is the Enkil Cog action lost or when does player B get the chance to attempt it?

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