file Correct time to use Heidelberg Castle, Germany for non acting player

08 Jun 2021 13:35 - 08 Jun 2021 13:36 #102423 by Timo
Actually, what you say is that effect that cannot be used during an action (eg Heidelberg) could not be used during the minion phase because every moment of the minion phase is an action.

I find this very counter intuitive and not in line with the game as it is played. We allready have a lot of micro phase and if you want to streamline the game, I am not sure I would begin with the "between 2 actions phase" ^^

(pre-range
prevent during pre-range
handling damage during pre-range
chosing range
pre-strike
choosing strike
resolve strike
prevent
handling damage
additional strike
choosing strike
resolve strike
prevent
handling damage
(while having additional
then repeat ^^)
press step
end of round
end of combat)

I am pretty sure that just having 2 kind of moments during a minion phase being "during an action" and "not during an action" with both having impulse to be handled is not necessarily a problem ^^
Last edit: 08 Jun 2021 13:36 by Timo.

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08 Jun 2021 13:59 #102425 by Ankha

You can use it after the resolution of an action.
(Check the rulings collected in the Codex of the Damned of reference: codex-of-the-damned.org/en/card-search.html?card=Heidelberg+Castle%2C+Germany)

Correct. There is a window after action resolution to use effects that are "not usable during an action". Sequencing during that window follows the impulse rule as usual. 

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
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08 May 2022 17:58 - 08 May 2022 18:31 #105218 by inm8
Does this in-between actions window exist only after an action?

Can Enkil Cog or Madness Network be used in this in-between actions window?

Does this in-between action window mean that the player whose turn it is need to pass the impulse twice to move to the influence phase (i.e. A passes after an action the "in-between action window" impulse where all other also pass and then A passes that no more actions are to be taken where all others also pass)?

Can HC be used as the first thing done in a minion phase?

Can HC be used as the only thing done in a minion phase?

Can HC be used as the last thing done in a minion phase?

Can HC be used if the player whose turn it is does nothing and passes the impulse to move to the influence phase?

Can HC be used in phases other than the minion phase (i.e. master, influence, and discard phase)?

Can one wait to decide to use HC till after the player whose turn it is has passed impulse declaring no more actions to be taken?
Last edit: 08 May 2022 18:31 by inm8.

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09 May 2022 08:31 - 09 May 2022 08:31 #105221 by Ankha

Does this in-between actions window exist only after an action?

No.

Can Enkil Cog or Madness Network be used in this in-between actions window?

No. Those are about performing an action.

Does this in-between action window mean that the player whose turn it is need to pass the impulse twice to move to the influence phase (i.e. A passes after an action the "in-between action window" impulse where all other also pass and then A passes that no more actions are to be taken where all others also pass)?


A has to give the opportunity (=> impulse) to other players to use their Heidelberg Castle, yes.

Can HC be used as the first thing done in a minion phase?

Yes.

Can HC be used as the only thing done in a minion phase?

Yes.

Can HC be used as the last thing done in a minion phase?

Yes.

Can HC be used if the player whose turn it is does nothing and passes the impulse to move to the influence phase?

Used by who? If the active player passes, it means he doesn't use the HC they have (unless they get back the impulse during the minion phase). But if another player controls the HC, he must be allowed to use it.

Can HC be used in phases other than the minion phase (i.e. master, influence, and discard phase)?

Yes.

Can one wait to decide to use HC till after the player whose turn it is has passed impulse declaring no more actions to be taken?

Yes, as long as there's no ongoing action.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Last edit: 09 May 2022 08:31 by Ankha.

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09 May 2022 12:07 #105223 by inm8

Can Enkil Cog or Madness Network be used in this in-between actions window?

No. Those are about performing an action.

Can only "in-between actions" effects be used in this window?

Are HC and Journal of Hrorsh currently the only 2 cards with "in-between actions" effects in the game?

Does this in-between action window mean that the player whose turn it is need to pass the impulse twice to move to the influence phase (i.e. A passes after an action the "in-between action window" impulse where all other also pass and then A passes that no more actions are to be taken where all others also pass)?


A has to give the opportunity (=> impulse) to other players to use their Heidelberg Castle, yes.

My question might not have been so clear, sorry. Trying again below;

The question is, when player A has just taken his "last" action, whether A would need to first pass the impulse for the "in-between action" window around the table (where all pass and the impulse returns to A) and then A needs to pass the impulse for "action taking" around the table (where again no one does anything) to be able to move to the next stage i.e move to the influence phase, effectively only after having passed the impulse "twice" (once for the "in-between actions" window and once for the "action taking" window) without doing anything?

In the above example if player C did use HC and then the impulse returns to A, does A have to again pass the impulse around the table for the "in-between actions" window (enabling, B and C a new opportunity, and D and E their first opportunity to use the "in-between actions" window) before A can pass the impulse for the "action taking" window (where no one does anything) to move to the influence phase?

Can HC be used if the player whose turn it is does nothing and passes the impulse to move to the influence phase?

Used by who? If the active player passes, it means he doesn't use the HC they have (unless they get back the impulse during the minion phase). But if another player controls the HC, he must be allowed to use it.

Sorry again if the question wasn´t clear.

When a player does nothing in his minion phase does he first need to pass the impulse for the "in-between actions" window and then after it has gone around the table (with no one doing anything) then pass the impulse for the "action taking" window to move to the influence phase?

The above insinuates that the "in-between actions" window is the very first window in the minion phase, is this correct?

Can HC be used in phases other than the minion phase (i.e. master, influence, and discard phase)?

Yes.

When do the players other than the player whose turn it is get the impulse to be able to use HC?

I was under the impression that the only time in the above-mentioned phases that the impulse is passed around was when the player whose turn it is actually plays a card, enabling only the "as it is played" effects to be played, do I have this wrong?

Can HC be used as the last thing done in a minion phase?

Yes

Can one wait to decide to use HC till after the player whose turn it is has passed impulse declaring no more actions to be taken?

Yes, as long as there's no ongoing action.

Don´t know if my question wasn´t clear or not but wouldn´t the above two be a reversal of this ruling [LSJ 20090209] ?

Doesn´t a minion phase have to end with impulse being passed around without any actions being taken and cannot end at the end of passing the impulse for the "in between actions" window?

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09 May 2022 12:58 #105224 by Ankha

Can Enkil Cog or Madness Network be used in this in-between actions window?

No. Those are about performing an action.

Can only "in-between actions" effects be used in this window?

No, you could use The Barrens for instance.

Are HC and Journal of Hrorsh currently the only 2 cards with "in-between actions" effects in the game?

It's not a rule question.

Does this in-between action window mean that the player whose turn it is need to pass the impulse twice to move to the influence phase (i.e. A passes after an action the "in-between action window" impulse where all other also pass and then A passes that no more actions are to be taken where all others also pass)?


A has to give the opportunity (=> impulse) to other players to use their Heidelberg Castle, yes.

My question might not have been so clear, sorry. Trying again below;

The question is, when player A has just taken his "last" action, whether A would need to first pass the impulse for the "in-between action" window around the table (where all pass and the impulse returns to A) and then A needs to pass the impulse for "action taking" around the table (where again no one does anything) to be able to move to the next stage i.e move to the influence phase, effectively only after having passed the impulse "twice" (once for the "in-between actions" window and once for the "action taking" window) without doing anything?

Indeed.

In the above example if player C did use HC and then the impulse returns to A, does A have to again pass the impulse around the table for the "in-between actions" window (enabling, B and C a new opportunity, and D and E their first opportunity to use the "in-between actions" window) before A can pass the impulse for the "action taking" window (where no one does anything) to move to the influence phase?

That's how the impulse work, yes.

Can HC be used if the player whose turn it is does nothing and passes the impulse to move to the influence phase?

Used by who? If the active player passes, it means he doesn't use the HC they have (unless they get back the impulse during the minion phase). But if another player controls the HC, he must be allowed to use it.

Sorry again if the question wasn´t clear.

When a player does nothing in his minion phase does he first need to pass the impulse for the "in-between actions" window and then after it has gone around the table (with no one doing anything) then pass the impulse for the "action taking" window to move to the influence phase?

Yes. It's the same question as above.

The above insinuates that the "in-between actions" window is the very first window in the minion phase, is this correct?

Yes. A can use the HC before any action during their minion phase.

Can HC be used in phases other than the minion phase (i.e. master, influence, and discard phase)?

Yes.

When do the players other than the player whose turn it is get the impulse to be able to use HC?

When they get the impulse. HC has no restriction during other phases, since there are no actions during those phases.

I was under the impression that the only time in the above-mentioned phases that the impulse is passed around was when the player whose turn it is actually plays a card, enabling only the "as it is played" effects to be played, do I have this wrong?

Indeed, you have it wrong. Impulse passes around each time A declines to use it (for whatever reason). For instance, another player can use a burn option during A's unlock phase, even if A doesn't do anything. Or Giotto Verducci's controller can discard a card during the discard phase of another player even if that player doesn't discard any card.

Can HC be used as the last thing done in a minion phase?

Yes

Can one wait to decide to use HC till after the player whose turn it is has passed impulse declaring no more actions to be taken?

Yes, as long as there's no ongoing action.

Don´t know if my question wasn´t clear or not but wouldn´t the above two be a reversal of this ruling [LSJ 20090209] ?

Doesn´t a minion phase have to end with impulse being passed around without any actions being taken and cannot end at the end of passing the impulse for the "in between actions" window?

Using the impulse or not using it to declare an action doesn't change anything: HC can be used after someone has declared an action, or everyone has declined declaring an action.
Also, A can use their HC after their last action.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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