Correct time to use Heidelberg Castle, Germany for non acting player

inm8 wrote:

Ankha wrote:

inm8 wrote:

Can one wait to decide to use HC till after the player whose turn it is has passed impulse declaring no more actions to be taken?

Yes, as long as there's no ongoing action.

Don´t know if my question wasn´t clear or not but wouldn´t the above two be a reversal of this ruling [LSJ 20090209] ?

I think this question about LSJ ruling has not been answered.

And no, the above ruling is not reversed (if I understand correctly).

What actually happen in the scenario is that :
- A have the impulse for "not during an action effects".
- A pass
- everyone else pass
- A now have the opportunity to take an action ans pass
- B pass
- C now has the impulse to take an action but not to use HC and pass the impulse for playing an action
- everyone else pass
- no action have been taken since the impulse for "not during an action effects" have gone around the table so end of minion phase and beginning of influence phase

Ankha wrote:

The sequence is:

-- START OF THE MINION PHASE --
a) HC window (following the sequencing rule) => if everybody passes, go to b), otherwise go back to a)
b) ACTION window (following the sequencing rule) => if everybody passes, go to END OF THE MINION PHASE, otherwise go back to a)
-- END OF THE MINION PHASE --

(a and b always in that order).

I have been thinking about this for a bit and see it as being problematic for two reasons;

1) it makes the process different from all other phases (i think) by creating a pre-requisite step to the main activity of the phase

2) it deviates from the idea that the active player at all times is the one with the priority advantage regardless of if they control non-action effects in play or not.


Below is my attempt to write it down as to what to me would make more sense (hopefully I haven´t gotten anything wrong).

-- START OF THE MINION PHASE --
1) The active player may play effects; => if the active player passes, go to 2
a) if it is an action - non-active players (following the sequencing and eligible blockers rule) can play reactions and non-action effects (Barrens, Dreams, etc.) that are not restricted to be used during an action
b) if it is a non-action - non-active players (following the sequencing rule) can play non-action effects (HC, Barrens, etc.)
2) The non-active players (following the sequencing rule) may play effects; => if everybody passes, go to END OF THE MINION PHASE
a) if it is a non-action - play non-action effects (HC, Barrens, etc.) => after a single effect is played go back to 1
b) if it is an action - the player becomes temporarily the active player for the duration of that action and the non-active players (following the sequencing and eligible blockers rule) can play reactions and non-action effects (Barrens, Dreams, etc.) that are not restricted to be used during an action. => after resolving the action go back to 1

** every time a non-active player plays an effect the impulse is returned to the active player **
-- END OF THE MINION PHASE --

Huh...

What about trying to not clog things that are not overly complicated in a game with already too much overly complicated stuff.

The TLDR of Ankha has the big avantage of being simple ! Please do not try to complicate it...

And don't forget that what you propose would be kind of meaningless because barrens, HC etc could always be used in the master phase and so before the first action of the turn...

Timo wrote:

Huh...

What about trying to not clog things that are not overly complicated in a game with already too much overly complicated stuff.

Not my intention at all.

Timo wrote:

The TLDR of Ankha has the big avantage of being simple ! Please do not try to complicate it...

The existence of this "between actions" window aka step a) that Ankha provided is new to me and even though I find the provided sequence elegant is what got me questioning....as I find it to be undefined (isn't in the rules nor in the card text) and seems to exist only because of rulings.

I might be wrong (probably, which is fine) and it has always worked like described, that all players first get to use all their Barrens, Dream, HC, etc. that they want before the active player gets to make his first action....to me it just seems to take away from the active player's advantage of being the active player, contrary to how I understand it to work in all other phases.

For example during the master phase the active player with 3 MPAs and Dreams in play gets to do all 3 and use the Dreams (in any order) before passing impulse to others so they then can use their Barrens, HC, etc. and don't get to use it before the active player is done and passes the impulse.

Timo wrote:

And don't forget that what you propose would be kind of meaningless because barrens, HC, etc could always be used in the master phase and so before the first action of the turn...

You are absolutely right that they can be played at the end (or when the impulse is given) in a previous phase but that isn´t the point of my post, it isn´t to try to change whether those cards can be played or not but was in regards to when and the order of things.
My understanding currently is that the window "between actions" seems to have come to be as part of the errata done to HC, why i don´t understand, because the change it got was an explicit limitation "cannot be used during an action".