file Lorenzo Detuono and Imposing Phantasm

02 Jun 2022 14:57 #105373 by Ankha

> Just a quick query about the interaction of two cards that I can't
> find a specific resolution to.
>
> If an Escaped Mental Patient uses its special text to strike with
> aggravated damage during combat can it be saved from burning by
> Heaven's Gate?
No.

groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/a3fb69badc08dbdf


When LSJ then continues in the same thread stating one can play multiple Heaven´s Gate and at the end EMP burns to its own card text doesn´t make logical sense (probably he didnt check the text of Heaven´s Gate)

> I can't save EMP if it strike aggro and takes damage and is burned
> during strike resolution , cause if i play Heaven Gate, combat ends
> and EMP is burned due to his card text? And I can't play second Heaven
> Gate to prevent it?

You could play a second Heaven's Gate. But then the EMP would still burn when
combat ends. And a third and a fourth. Eventually when you stop playing Heaven's
Gates, the EMP burns.


No, LSJ changed his mind because :

Good point.
I was thinking that the EMP's effect was just "during strike resolution".
But, yes, it is "at the end of combat".

So you could play LfD.
But then LfD would end combat (card text), and the EMP would be burned (card text).


Heaven's Gate is still a combat card played during combat.

Prince of Paris, France
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03 Jun 2022 09:20 - 04 Jun 2022 05:19 #105379 by inm8

> Just a quick query about the interaction of two cards that I can't
> find a specific resolution to.
>
> If an Escaped Mental Patient uses its special text to strike with
> aggravated damage during combat can it be saved from burning by
> Heaven's Gate?
No.

groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/a3fb69badc08dbdf


When LSJ then continues in the same thread stating one can play multiple Heaven´s Gate and at the end EMP burns to its own card text doesn´t make logical sense (probably he didnt check the text of Heaven´s Gate)

> I can't save EMP if it strike aggro and takes damage and is burned
> during strike resolution , cause if i play Heaven Gate, combat ends
> and EMP is burned due to his card text? And I can't play second Heaven
> Gate to prevent it?

You could play a second Heaven's Gate. But then the EMP would still burn when
combat ends. And a third and a fourth. Eventually when you stop playing Heaven's
Gates, the EMP burns.


No, LSJ changed his mind because :

Good point.
I was thinking that the EMP's effect was just "during strike resolution".
But, yes, it is "at the end of combat".

So you could play LfD.
But then LfD would end combat (card text), and the EMP would be burned (card text).


Heaven's Gate is still a combat card played during combat.


Apologize for my inability to understand what point you are trying to make with the above comments.

What did LSJ change his mind about?

In the thread about Left for Dead + Escaped Mental Patient from 2002 he first said that LfD could save EMP from burning to its own text because he incorrectly thought the burn text of EMP triggered "during strike resolution" which later in that thread was highlighted to be incorrect and thereby he ruled that the EMP couldn´t avoid to burn from its own text by using LfD as the burn text of EMP triggers "at the end of combat" i.e. after combat, after LfD´s timing window.

Heaven´s Gate being a combat card played during combat hasn´t been questioned so don´t understand the point you are trying to make?

Perhaps I wasn´t clear about what I considered illogical about the statement made in the thread about Heaven´s Gate + Escaped Mental Patient from 2007 that multiple HGs can be played.
I meant to point out that I think that only one HG can be played because the text at the time was "Only usable when an ally is burned in combat." which would mean that after the first HG is played to save the EMP from burning to combat damage it would no longer be burning and therefore a second HG cannot be played and when EMP burns because of its own text that happens at the end of combat i.e. after combat as ruled already back in 2002 for the LfD + EMP meaning HG cannot be played as it has to be played "in combat".

Both LfD and HG are only playable during/in combat which "at the end of combat" isn´t and has various rulings saying it is after combat i.e. is not "during combat" nor "in combat".
If "at the end of combat" was considered to be "in combat" one would be able to save an ally with LfD or HG which has been ruled to not be possible.
Last edit: 04 Jun 2022 05:19 by inm8.

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