Haqim's Law: Retribution - efect during combat

beslin wrote:

One player claim how him can use efect Haqim's Law: Retribution during combat,so just for cycle,him can discard card during combat. if that posible?

Only if the acting minion is bleeding.
REVERSAL: no, not during combat. Only before action resolution.

beslin wrote:

If is answer yes,many action modifier have same key word (During a bleed action) as Haqim's Law: Retribution,so if is answer yes,can we then play also during combat(after block bleed): Confusion, Bonding, Conditioning......and many other increase bleed cards?

No. You cannot play action modifier cards during combat.
www.vekn.net/rulebook#combat

rulebook wrote:

Note: The only cards that can be played during combat are combat cards.

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inm8 wrote:

No, it is not possible.
One cannot use a bleed modifier during a non-bleed action/step....combat is not a bleed action/step and HLR is only useable During a bleed action as a modifier effect.

Here groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/iRQcAXMl7aY/YMhwNvcDs5QJ is a ruling (on Bonding) that makes it clear that one cannot use a bleed modifier effect on a non-bleed action

If the action is not a bleed action, you cannot use BH:R at all.
If the action is a bleed action (even though it's been blocked), you can use BH:R as it is not "playing an action modifier card", the same way you could use the Barrens.

See REVERSAL above.

Timo wrote:

An official ruling has already been provided by Ankha :

www.vekn.net/forum/rules-questions/79757-haqim-s-law-retribution-and-anu-diptinatpa#105140

Ankha wrote:

You cannot give a bleed boost to non-bleeding minion.

A minion in combat is not a bleeding minion. Even if it is a combat resulting from the block of a bleed action.

The ruling you quote is only about non-bleeding minions.

A minion performing a bleed action who is blocked and in combat is still an acting, bleeding, minion.

lip wrote:

This ruling does not apply directly: it’s saying a non-acting minion cannot use retribution.

If the minion is bleeding and gets blocked, he’s acting, so it’s another case.

Combat is part of the action so I don’t see why you couldn’t use Reribution. It says « during a bleed action », which it is, because combat is part of the action.

Correct.

inm8 wrote:

Just pointing out that a minion in combat is no longer bleeding even if the combat is the result of a bleeding action being blocked.

Ankha wrote:

You cannot give a bleed boost to non-bleeding minion.

Those two statements are unrelated.
The first one is wrong, and the second one is correct.

inm8 wrote:

Seems I stand corrected.... didn´t expect it to be allowed to boost a bleed action during combat as the action is in the middle of resolution (block resolution), until now if I'm not mistaken all bleed boosting is only done before the actual resolution of the action.

I guess then this is an "ok" to use HL:R as the bleed would be successful to get around deflection.

No, "would be" window is only used for replacement effects. If you want to increase it, you have to do it before.

Timo wrote:

You mean in the "dis pater/spying mission window" ?

Dis Pater
Unique.

Put this card in play. Once each action, if a Giovanni you control is about to successfully bleed your prey, you can remove seven cards in your ash heap from the game to give that action +1 bleed.

Spying Mission
+1 stealth.

Only usable if a bleed would be successful. Instead, the bleed burns no pool, is unsuccessful, and this card is put on this vampire. The next time this vampire is about to successfully bleed the same Methuselah, burn this card and this vampire gets +2 bleed.

I guess it would be the case (and I don't like it).

Dis Pater and Spying Mission increase the bleed when it is "about to be successful", so it's too late once again.

Timo wrote:

It would also trump Archon Investigation.

Archon Investigation
Master: out-of-turn.

Only usable when a minion is attempting to bleed you and the bleed amount is 4 or more. Burn the acting minion. (The action is not successful.)

How?