exclamation-circle Cards Bans 2016 (Anthelios, the red star, Seeds of corruption,Temptation of Greater Power)

21 Jan 2016 19:12 #75102 by cordovader

Ashur wrote:

cordovader wrote: Anthelios can also be easily countered via Not to Be, Uncoiling or Fourth Cycle.

Is this one of your "facts"? Do you actually think these 3 cards you mention is "easy" to play?


Well, this is going to be funny. I have been playing for 5 years, these are my 5 TWDs:

www.secretlibrary.info/index.php?deck=view&id=20845 -> Anthelios and Fourth Cycle (just to break all events)
www.secretlibrary.info/index.php?deck=view&id=14033 -> Fourth Cycle (just to break Anthelios, Dragonbound and Unmasking)
www.secretlibrary.info/index.php?deck=view&id=16435 -> An original Girls deck version
www.secretlibrary.info/index.php?deck=view&id=21433 -> A redux Girls S/B deck
www.secretlibrary.info/index.php?deck=view&id=9514 -> Weenie DEM, so no need for Anthelios, nor hosers

I agree Not To Be is difficult tu play, but because of my own experience, I can tell you Fourth Cycle works just fine.

Enjoy!

Ashur wrote:

cordovader wrote: If you're saying that Girls or Malkavian Demetia decks use Anthelios every turn means that you haven't seen them played a lot and you haven't played them yourself.

I know Myrdin, so I know this is not true. Why are you being an asshole like this cordovader? On the contrary, I guess it is YOU that haven´t played/played against these decks alot, as you don´t seem to understand Anthelios strenght.

Anyhow, the card is banned so you might as well get over it, at least until the game is back in print again.

PetriWessman wrote:

cordovader wrote: Anthelios can also be easily countered via Not to Be, Uncoiling or Fourth Cycle.


Ok, now it's clear you either have no idea of what you are talking about, are are intentionally being dense.

No, Anthelios cannot be "easily" countered by any of those. Been there, tried that. It's obvious you haven't.

It's like claiming that multi-MPA decks can "easily" be countered by packing a lot of Wash/SR. Nope, doesn't work either.
  • Not To Be: huge opportunity cost, rarely useful in real games due to that
  • Uncoiling: kills your own Events too, and depends on cooperation with rest of table to get rid of drawback. Useful card, but not an easy general solution.
  • Fourth Cycle: needs setup (i.e. other Gehenna cards of your own). Nice card, but very situational.

All this is beside the point, though. Anthelios has been banned, and most players seem to agree with the ban and the reasoning behind it. Your whining is not going to change that, so grow up and deal with it.

I would normally be bit more polite, but your previous assertions about how the Rules Team not being competent to do rules/ban decisions and about how other (experienced) player opinions on this do not matter -- only yours does -- does not make me inclined to be charitable here.

wesile wrote: Not to be.... the uncoiling and the 4th cycle as good strategies against the red star...

Why I don't catch preys with smart strategies like this in the tournaments...

Anthelious is to strong and a fix is clearly needed...

I will miss the ToGP... could also be fixed...

The vekn team are all seated in a "huge" pile of money that they make working for us at no cost... and in the end they even have to read less polite posts regarding their decisions...

So, instead of ranting why don't you start a topic with possible tweaks for this cards?


I guess my next post can be adressed to the 3 previous posters:

Insults, great argument. Just read the previous post, you may enjoy. As we say in Spain: you're more handsome with your mouth shut.

I already got over it, but since you and your groupies have been crying in this forum with no clear objective (Anthelios, Ashur Tablets, rulebook etc.) for around 4 years, I think I have the right to express my frustration at least a 10% of this time.

So enjoy the following 4-5 months.


PD: Missing ToGP, Anthelios is broken... Yes, I guess you're really right and full of arguments. Most important, great persons. :D
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21 Jan 2016 19:37 #75103 by jamesatzephyr

zkopiosy wrote: I hope Pascal we'll find another option.
I think a new event saying: During your turn, the first mpa you use make you gain one pool, the additional ones cost 2 pools" was a far better "solution" for thoses who find mmpa decks painful.


It's not clear why someone playing Vessel and The Barrens in one turn is doing anything that, in any way, warrants them paying extra pool. Similarly, Life in the City + Villein, or Priority Contract + Giant's Blood, or Aye + Aye, or Orun + Orun, or Wider View + Dreams of the Sphinx, or Corporal Reservoir + Visit from the Capuchin, or Abombwe + Jungle Hunting Ground, or Cadet + Pentex(tm) Loves You.

It's intentional that Trifles allow you to play more than master card per turn, with the Trifle being (generally) weaker than the full master - with Villein being one obvious exception, but that's not a problem with Trifles so much as a problem with Villein.

A great many "simple" suggestions of how to fix what-some-people-perceive-as-abusive MMPA decks using a vampire's special plus the Parthenon(*) plus some Trifles have a lot of collateral damage implications for people using Trifles in an innocuous fashion. It could have a disastrous impact on anyone playing to use Aye or Orun - and those are pretty rubbish right now, but I'd hope that a future V:EKN expansion might zazz up Aye and Orun tech, which is really hard if a card such as the one you propose has hurt them a lot.


This is not an argument for or against banning Anthelios, but apparently simple solutions such as the one you propose have the capacity to cause more problems than they solve.


(*) Not all MMPA decks have multiple copies of the Parthenon - plenty don't - but in a LiquidAshur + vampire + Anthelios setup, you can probably cycle to your one Parthenon fairly easily, if you want it.

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21 Jan 2016 19:51 #75104 by Vlad
For me it was easier to reverse to Anson's original card text !
And the same goes for all MMPA enablers... (I know the rule "no erratas until reprint" but as I said elsewhere : accept proxies and TADAAA ! Problem solved !!!)

My first reaction after those bans was remembering how I felt when PTO was banned : very sad and with no clues about he Why ?

There was no topic about TOGP problems (except Ankha's one)...

But then I thought : Okayyy, so next to go are Pentex Subversion and Parity Shift then...

As I already said in our french forum : this decision is another nail in VtES coffin !!!

When we didn't proceed on accepting proxies (I thought the survey showed players wanted them) we didn't encourage new players to come, now with these banned cards we are losing old players...

Sad, very sad indeed...

Pentex Board of Directors

Prince of Oye Plage
Alastor Grand Nord

:gang:

:ani: :cel: :chi: :FOR: :PRO:

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21 Jan 2016 19:52 #75105 by Vlad
And the saddest part is : some players didn't even look at the great Anarch set we got !!!

:(((

Pentex Board of Directors

Prince of Oye Plage
Alastor Grand Nord

:gang:

:ani: :cel: :chi: :FOR: :PRO:

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21 Jan 2016 20:04 #75107 by Ylly

Vlad wrote:
My first reaction after those bans was remembering how I felt when PTO was banned : very sad and with no clues about he Why ?


I will give you an answer: I also wrote elsewhere that as a new player with my first deck (black hand anti malks starters mix) I got a PTO from Arika targeting my freshly influenced Hannibal. I was astonished. The power that could wipe my 10cap before I could say quidditch... As an experienced MtG player with reasonable insight as to what an overpowered card means, this really got me... And then I was curious and found out that there was NOTHING similar for sabbat vampires to destroy camarilla. What a shock!

As I was glad that PTO was banned, I agree with these new bans. I would prefer errata, but vekn policy is clear in this. Thus, ban is about to enter tournament life, get used to it.

Another thing I do not quite understand, is the "I´m gonna stop playing" approach. VtES, as far as I am concerned, offers the highest amount of possibiliies, how to build a deck, competitive strategies are out there and this is the chance to come with something new again. For me personally, ideas and creating of new decks have always been at least the same level of fun as playing them later with/against my friends....
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21 Jan 2016 20:18 #75108 by zkopiosy

Ylly wrote: Another thing I do not quite understand, is the "I´m gonna stop playing" approach. VtES, as far as I am concerned, offers the highest amount of possibiliies, how to build a deck, competitive strategies are out there and this is the chance to come with something new again. For me personally, ideas and creating of new decks have always been at least the same level of fun as playing them later with/against my friends....


Of course it's fun, I didn't say it's not, but many players like me, spend less time to build/play vtes now, than by the past.
Thoses players, are the ones that don't want to spend time rebuild and balance theirs decks.

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