Honest Idea for fixing overly strong master cards!

Demnogonis wrote:

Suoli wrote:

Thanks but I'm not personally struggling against Girls at the moment. It's just a deck that I believe has the potential to make the tournament scene less fun.

It already has. Some years ago it was still exciting to go to a tournament, where you presume people will play better and have more thought out decks. Now? Have fun with your timeouts and don't do any kind of a deck that can't oust some player who bloats 20 pool in a turn... See the wonders of Anson and Girls at every table.

The choice is binary. A minion removal deck, or an incredibly aggressive pool damage deck, that's all I can think of that will work in the current metagame.

I agree with this. Obviously I wasn't a player back then, but reading tournament reports from a couple of years back is fun, while current tournaments are just timeout followed by timeout.

Serazahr wrote:

Demnogonis wrote:

Suoli wrote:

Thanks but I'm not personally struggling against Girls at the moment. It's just a deck that I believe has the potential to make the tournament scene less fun.

It already has. Some years ago it was still exciting to go to a tournament, where you presume people will play better and have more thought out decks. Now? Have fun with your timeouts and don't do any kind of a deck that can't oust some player who bloats 20 pool in a turn... See the wonders of Anson and Girls at every table.

The choice is binary. A minion removal deck, or an incredibly aggressive pool damage deck, that's all I can think of that will work in the current metagame.

I agree with this. Obviously I wasn't a player back then, but reading tournament reports from a couple of years back is fun, while current tournaments are just timeout followed by timeout.

Yes. Gehenna is upon us. Jesus Christ.

Erm, I was flipping through the TWDA at Lasombra's page and read the last results. Yes, there were Girls decks too. There were some bleeding decks. There were Shamblers. There were weird things. It is like the 17 years before. Come on.

I'm not a Girls fan too. I even don't like Ashur Tables much. But I hate also !Ventrue-Grinders and boring Kindred Spirit Bleed. So play Suddens on the Villeins, send Aksinya to torpor and diablerize, Mind Rape her, Nightmare Curse her, make her Anathema, I don't know. But stop that depressive behaviour.

Joscha wrote:

I'm not a Girls fan too. I even don't like Ashur Tables much. But I hate also !Ventrue-Grinders and boring Kindred Spirit Bleed. So play Suddens on the Villeins, send Aksinya to torpor and diablerize, Mind Rape her, Nightmare Curse her, I don't know. But stop that depressive behaviour.

Suddens against Girls is just silly, you don't want to compete with a single MPA and 4-8 Suddens against a deck with 2-3 MPA's and 40+ master cards. A combat deck would need to reliably burn a minion every turn, survive a predator and oust a bloat deck. It can be done but then we're talking about Tupdog or POT-weenie. Mind Rape means you're playing Stanislava or something, which leads to AI or a couple of bleeds of 3 a turn. That's nowhere near enough. Lastly, the 6 copies of Nightmare Curse in the TWDA were only used for out/inferior effect. There's just no tournament viable deck for AUS/CHI minions that could properly use it.

Suoli wrote:

Suddens against Girls is just silly, you don't want to compete with a single MPA and 4-8 Suddens against a deck with 2-3 MPA's and 40+ master cards.

But you don't have to cancel every master card the deck plays. You concentrate on crucial ones.
But that discussion leads nowhere. Enough other players mentioned possibilities in this thread. Maybe the Girls-issue is more about how players at a given table help a Girls deck too much instead of letting it die.
What I find silly is to speak of boring tounaments with many Timeouts without proper evidence. I often read the tournamentreports too and though there are a few mentioned tourneys with many TO the majority of finals are in the limit.

That said I just want to repeat that I appreciate Serazahr's presentation of his idea of louche-cards. I rated it "too complicated" but liked the discussion. In the beginning there were nice arguments for and against. But then again it slipped away in the already known and tiring master-card and Girls-bashing routine. It's like the everlasting PTO-discussion some years before.

You could say: "If it tires you why do you answer?" True. I'm off.

Suoli wrote:

Suddens against Girls is just silly, you don't want to compete with a single MPA and 4-8 Suddens against a deck with 2-3 MPA's and 40+ master cards. A combat deck would need to reliably burn a minion every turn, survive a predator and oust a bloat deck. It can be done but then we're talking about Tupdog or POT-weenie. Mind Rape means you're playing Stanislava or something, which leads to AI or a couple of bleeds of 3 a turn. That's nowhere near enough. Lastly, the 6 copies of Nightmare Curse in the TWDA were only used for out/inferior effect. There's just no tournament viable deck for AUS/CHI minions that could properly use it.

Point One- You do not need to burn a minion every turn, or maybe ever.
Even though the Girls gain a lot of pool, they do not have an unlimited supply of vampires in their uncontrolled region and crypt. If you eliminate (or the offending player does by way of Golconda) the bouncing chick or even Cybelle, there may not be another one handy. Defense has to come from somewhere, so take part/all of that out.

Point Two- Nightmare Curse is a somewhat more difficult to use version of Sensory Deprivation. Sens Dep *is* an effective means of locking down the bouncer that doesn't require burning her. She will still have to be tapped, so how about a little Misdirection, Anarch Troublemaker, Edged Illusion, Nightmare Curse, Deep Song, etc. I sense a Ravnos comeback!

You can put solid ANI combat module in girls, so combat isn't really an answer.