On Parity Shift 6. "problematic card".

Ankha wrote:

Except that IF the Camarilla is better, it will be more frequently played.

"More frequently played as a vote deck" does not equal "Results in more titled vampires showing up in randomly seated games".

Again, yes, Camarilla vote decks are better than non Camarilla Vote decks. Mostly 'cause of Parity Shift. But this doesn't mean that in any given, randomly seated game there will be more Camarilla titles at the table than non Camarilla titles. As titled vampires of all sects show up all the time, even when no Political Actions are used. Magaji show up all the time in non vote decks. 'Cause no Secrets from the Magaji is incredibly good. Cardinals and Arch Bishops show up all the time in blocky-decks, 'cause Eternal Vigilance is incredibly good. Prisci show up all the time, as Prisci tend to be moderately sized vampires with good disciplines anyway. People use titled vampires in non vote based decks all the time. As having some titled vampires on the table, even if you have no political actions whatsoever, is often a good idea.

Saying "Camarilla vote decks are better than non Camarilla vote decks, so they will be at the table with your Sabbat vote deck which will then benefit from Private Audience (or whichever) more" is not something that holds in a game where decks and seating are essentially random. As you are probably more likely to sit at a table with zero vote decks as you are to sit at a table with multiple vote decks. As the decks that people are using and what is at a given table is, generally speaking, random.

Private Audience is strictly worse than Closed Session.

Private Audience can be better than Closed Session in certain metagames.

bakija wrote:

Ankha wrote:

Except that IF the Camarilla is better, it will be more frequently played.

"More frequently played as a vote deck" does not equal "Results in more titled vampires showing up in randomly seated games".

Again, yes, Camarilla vote decks are better than non Camarilla Vote decks. Mostly 'cause of Parity Shift. But this doesn't mean that in any given, randomly seated game there will be more Camarilla titles at the table than non Camarilla titles. As titled vampires of all sects show up all the time, even when no Political Actions are used. Magaji show up all the time in non vote decks. 'Cause no Secrets from the Magaji is incredibly good. Cardinals and Arch Bishops show up all the time in blocky-decks, 'cause Eternal Vigilance is incredibly good. Prisci show up all the time, as Prisci tend to be moderately sized vampires with good disciplines anyway. People use titled vampires in non vote based decks all the time. As having some titled vampires on the table, even if you have no political actions whatsoever, is often a good idea.

Saying "Camarilla vote decks are better than non Camarilla vote decks, so they will be at the table with your Sabbat vote deck which will then benefit from Private Audience (or whichever) more" is not something that holds in a game where decks and seating are essentially random. As you are probably more likely to sit at a table with zero vote decks as you are to sit at a table with multiple vote decks. As the decks that people are using and what is at a given table is, generally speaking, random.

That's some funky kind of moon logic. Might as well say that I have equal chances of drawing the single copy of Giant's Blood and one of the 4 copies of Villein out of a 90-card deck because the deck is randomized.

Suoli wrote:

That's some funky kind of moon logic. Might as well say that I have equal chances of drawing the single copy of Giant's Blood and one of the 4 copies of Villein out of a 90-card deck because the deck is randomized.

Not really.

What decks you sit down at a table with is, essentially, random. If you are a Camarilla vote deck, you are just as likely to see non Camarilla titled vampires on the table as you are Camarilla titled vampires. 'Cause titled vampires show up in decks that aren't vote decks. All the time.

Just because Camarilla vampires make better vote decks than non Camarilla vampires doesn't mean that, among all deck types, Camarilla titled vampires will show up more often. As not all decks are vote decks. And titled vampires frequently show up in non vote decks.

bakija wrote:

Suoli wrote:

That's some funky kind of moon logic. Might as well say that I have equal chances of drawing the single copy of Giant's Blood and one of the 4 copies of Villein out of a 90-card deck because the deck is randomized.

Not really.

What decks you sit down at a table with is, essentially, random. If you are a Camarilla vote deck, you are just as likely to see non Camarilla titled vampires on the table as you are Camarilla titled vampires. 'Cause titled vampires show up in decks that aren't vote decks. All the time.

Just because Camarilla vampires make better vote decks than non Camarilla vampires doesn't mean that, among all deck types, Camarilla titled vampires will show up more often. As not all decks are vote decks. And titled vampires frequently show up in non vote decks.

Random is not the same as perfectly even probability distribution. Random seating does not mean that you are equally likely to see deck A and deck B. Certain decks are more likely to show up than others. That's just a plain fact. This is why you've probably played against a Triple A deck a few times more often than an Eyes of the Dead deck.

bakija wrote:

What decks you sit down at a table with is, essentially, random. If you are a Camarilla vote deck, you are just as likely to see non Camarilla titled vampires on the table as you are Camarilla titled vampires.

This is empirically untrue. One sees FAR more Camarilla titled vampires than non-Camarilla titled vampires. Even after a Sabbat set was printed, one always saw more Camarilla titled vampires showing up, partly because they have historically, if not still are, just better vampires from better clans and partly because of cards like 2nd Tradition and Parity Shift.