Cards Bans 2016 (Anthelios, the red star, Seeds of corruption,Temptation of Greater Power)

GreyB wrote:

zkopiosy wrote:

GreyB,

do you realize that it's not realistic to do all that in the same game? And i do not say that for playing a khazar animalism mmpa rush deck

You forgot that if you predator has a wash, he also can wash you the picked master every turn?

When you play anthelios, your deck is built with a lot masters in only one examplary, so you aren't always in a situation where your pentex or you archon is in the discard pile... Or maybe you haven't got your anthelios, or maybe no master in hand.....

If you hope on your recursive archon to deal with heavy bleeder as predator, you will be dead before got the setup in place, and the bleeder will stp to bleed you for 4 or more

You are telling that the card is too powerfull, in giving us perct setup, sorry but that's not realistic.

.

Basics:
Liquidation, ashur's and anthelios, the cards you need will be in the discard pile in no time, you can cycle like crazy and fish back what you need... Add vamps like anson and/or Parthenon so you can play multiple masters obviously!

Add flavour:
- Khazars+jake or animalism rush or whatever, pick one (not all obviously ), the basics empowers nearly every archetype.

Don't worry about:
- Wash/Sudden Reversal, other players usually don't play a bunch of masters they can discard easily nor do they have loads of wash's stacked in their deck, so big chance they haven't drawn one yet.
- Not To Be, Fourth Cycle or Uncoiling, chances are you will not see one played 3 out of 4 games if even that and if it does, take your loss and move on to the next game.

Man... Banning Anthelios really breaks that up, a real shame Still possible though but harder since other players can now block card recovery, but seems less fun since now your vamps must work on card recycling + oust strategy instead of just oust strategy.

I think people can still tweak their decks a bit to make it work, just a teensy bit less powerful. Just play some table politics and you're golden I think

Your reasoning is not at all sustained by the TWDA.

Did you know that in the TWDA you have 98 decks using Anthelios + Liquidation between more than 300 using Anthelios without Liquidation?

If your statement was right, why do we see that few TWDs that use that combination in comparaison to the total?

Either the combination is not that broken as you state, either the MMPA plague is not that exagerated as people on this forum state or a little of both. And anyway, if both this statements were true, this decks wouldnt win because of contesting and Ashur race

In fact in metagames were quite a lot of people play this decks (10-20% of the playerbase) the best thing is to play hosers and dont play an MMPA deck (I say this by personal experience).

Lönkka wrote:

Of course when you ban some cards some people will be annoyed by it.

Luckily VTES has very few (around ten or so) banned cards so this isn't really a big deal. If you think about the big picture.

This. The game has a gazillion cards (gazillion defined as multiple thousands).

Someone said "I'm not really playing anymore and only own a few decks, and now some of those don't work anymore". In a way I understand that, but look: you're saying that the game should not be improved because of you (who doesn't even play anymore). That doesn't work.

After the dust settles, the people who actually play the game will have filled up those Anthelios slots in their decks with something else, and have retooled their decks to deal with the loss of infinite, easy recursion. The game will be better as a whole, on the tournament level. "Girls" decks will still be viable. And if anyone actually does leave because of the ban of one card (out of thousands), I for one won't miss them.

ReverendRevolver wrote:

Root is mmpa sources

Maybe. But imagine the wailing, screaming and gnashing of teeth if the Rules Team had decided to ban Anson, Nana, Cybele and the rest of that gang B)

PetriWessman wrote:

ReverendRevolver wrote:

Root is mmpa sources

Maybe. But imagine the wailing, screaming and gnashing of teeth if the Rules Team had decided to ban Anson, Nana, Cybele and the rest of that gang B)

No need to ban them : simply limit MMPAs to 2 as Anson original text

cordovader wrote:

GreyB wrote:

zkopiosy wrote:

GreyB,

do you realize that it's not realistic to do all that in the same game? And i do not say that for playing a khazar animalism mmpa rush deck

You forgot that if you predator has a wash, he also can wash you the picked master every turn?

When you play anthelios, your deck is built with a lot masters in only one examplary, so you aren't always in a situation where your pentex or you archon is in the discard pile... Or maybe you haven't got your anthelios, or maybe no master in hand.....

If you hope on your recursive archon to deal with heavy bleeder as predator, you will be dead before got the setup in place, and the bleeder will stp to bleed you for 4 or more

You are telling that the card is too powerfull, in giving us perct setup, sorry but that's not realistic.

.

Basics:
Liquidation, ashur's and anthelios, the cards you need will be in the discard pile in no time, you can cycle like crazy and fish back what you need... Add vamps like anson and/or Parthenon so you can play multiple masters obviously!

Add flavour:
- Khazars+jake or animalism rush or whatever, pick one (not all obviously ), the basics empowers nearly every archetype.

Don't worry about:
- Wash/Sudden Reversal, other players usually don't play a bunch of masters they can discard easily nor do they have loads of wash's stacked in their deck, so big chance they haven't drawn one yet.
- Not To Be, Fourth Cycle or Uncoiling, chances are you will not see one played 3 out of 4 games if even that and if it does, take your loss and move on to the next game.

Man... Banning Anthelios really breaks that up, a real shame Still possible though but harder since other players can now block card recovery, but seems less fun since now your vamps must work on card recycling + oust strategy instead of just oust strategy.

I think people can still tweak their decks a bit to make it work, just a teensy bit less powerful. Just play some table politics and you're golden I think

Your reasoning is not at all sustained by the TWDA.

What reasoning would that be? I just listed a killer recipy that gets enhanced even more with Anthelios.

cordovader wrote:

Did you know that in the TWDA you have 98 decks using Anthelios + Liquidation between more than 300 using Anthelios without Liquidation?

If your statement was right, why do we see that few TWDs that use that combination in comparaison to the total?

I don't see how my statement has anything todo with TWDA... I just listed a killer recipy that utilized Anthelios... Obviously you could use Anthelios in other meaningful ways...

cordovader wrote:

Either the combination is not that broken as you state, either the MMPA plague is not that exagerated as people on this forum state or a little of both.

The killer combination is broken, since Anthelios is banned. You can still use it with other cards, but takes some effort. I have not mentioned anything about a MMPA plague, so not sure why you bring it up...

cordovader wrote:

And anyway, if both this statements were true, this decks wouldnt win because of contesting and Ashur race

What statements? I just listed a killer recipy that utilized Anthelios... Haven't seen any Ashur race in the last 3 years, so you're golden on playing Ashur's

GreyB wrote:

cordovader wrote:

GreyB wrote:

zkopiosy wrote:

GreyB,

do you realize that it's not realistic to do all that in the same game? And i do not say that for playing a khazar animalism mmpa rush deck

You forgot that if you predator has a wash, he also can wash you the picked master every turn?

When you play anthelios, your deck is built with a lot masters in only one examplary, so you aren't always in a situation where your pentex or you archon is in the discard pile... Or maybe you haven't got your anthelios, or maybe no master in hand.....

If you hope on your recursive archon to deal with heavy bleeder as predator, you will be dead before got the setup in place, and the bleeder will stp to bleed you for 4 or more

You are telling that the card is too powerfull, in giving us perct setup, sorry but that's not realistic.

.

Basics:
Liquidation, ashur's and anthelios, the cards you need will be in the discard pile in no time, you can cycle like crazy and fish back what you need... Add vamps like anson and/or Parthenon so you can play multiple masters obviously!

Add flavour:
- Khazars+jake or animalism rush or whatever, pick one (not all obviously ), the basics empowers nearly every archetype.

Don't worry about:
- Wash/Sudden Reversal, other players usually don't play a bunch of masters they can discard easily nor do they have loads of wash's stacked in their deck, so big chance they haven't drawn one yet.
- Not To Be, Fourth Cycle or Uncoiling, chances are you will not see one played 3 out of 4 games if even that and if it does, take your loss and move on to the next game.

Man... Banning Anthelios really breaks that up, a real shame Still possible though but harder since other players can now block card recovery, but seems less fun since now your vamps must work on card recycling + oust strategy instead of just oust strategy.

I think people can still tweak their decks a bit to make it work, just a teensy bit less powerful. Just play some table politics and you're golden I think

Your reasoning is not at all sustained by the TWDA.

What reasoning would that be? I just listed a killer recipy that gets enhanced even more with Anthelios.

cordovader wrote:

Did you know that in the TWDA you have 98 decks using Anthelios + Liquidation between more than 300 using Anthelios without Liquidation?

If your statement was right, why do we see that few TWDs that use that combination in comparaison to the total?

I don't see how my statement has anything todo with TWDA... I just listed a killer recipy that utilized Anthelios... Obviously you could use Anthelios in other meaningful ways...

cordovader wrote:

Either the combination is not that broken as you state, either the MMPA plague is not that exagerated as people on this forum state or a little of both.

The killer combination is broken, since Anthelios is banned. You can still use it with other cards, but takes some effort. I have not mentioned anything about a MMPA plague, so not sure why you bring it up...

cordovader wrote:

And anyway, if both this statements were true, this decks wouldnt win because of contesting and Ashur race

What statements? I just listed a killer recipy that utilized Anthelios... Haven't seen any Ashur race in the last 3 years, so you're golden on playing Ashur's

I can make a killer recipe with any combination of cards, but this is not mental Jyhad.

For example: Ayo Igoli + Anarch Convert + Fee Stake + Chameleon + Forced March. Turn 4 you can steal any 9 or less cap on the table (and make him Baron directly!). With Brunhilde ADV you could even do it turn 3 with 7 cap or less. Is it poweful? Yes. Is it broken? No.

In real life, your killer recipe doesn't even work even the 50% of the time.

Not a single of the ban defenders has been able to answer what are the odds of being able to fully setup (this means having all the cards you want in the ash heap + Anthelios + at least 2 MPAs) and in which turn.

Anyway, this is the easiest case to analyze and btw, having only 2 MPAs and using Anthelios each turn means that you will surely jam your hand with masters.