question-circle Emerald Legionnaire — First Black Chantry Nerf?

04 Apr 2019 16:52 #94379 by skimflux

You also need to obtain the FUN RATE and if it falls outside standard deviation needs nerfing. People obsess with win rates and so on but there are plenty of other things to consider.

1) is it fun when some guy takes 1 action and gets 12 minions in play? does putting all this activity in the untap phase take away from the minion phase

2) EL or any minion spam (and multiact) leads to long turns and monopolizing of turn timer. when 1 guy takes 20 minute turns and the other 4 have 1 or 2 actions a turn this is snooze fest. similar for anything that shuffles deck.

3) is the card in itself ok but is it overly constraining the play space (limited viable deck choices)

win rates are ok but this shit isn't a job. Rock/paper/scissors may be perfectly balanced by win rates but the FUN RATE is lacking.


That's a good point.

Still, VTES is a competitive game, it's only natural that game balance is a top priority.
Anyone not playing in a VEKN tournament can adopt whatever rules change their playgroup sees fit for their purpose, regardless of what WW, BCP, or anyone else says. Social pressure on casual play is often enough to remove the most offensive cards and playstyles (which is also one reason why casual play experiences are generally not a good indication of play balance).

If we really want to maximize FUN RATE for VTES, well... we may have a long way to go! :lol:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
04 Apr 2019 17:15 #94380 by Mewcat
@skimflux

I would argue that vtes is neither competitive or balanced. The majority of people that go to a vtes event are not trying to break the game but rather to have dome fun with friends and you can see it in their deck choices. If we were trying to win above all other considerations it would just be dominate obfuscate stealth bleed forever.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Ke.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
04 Apr 2019 22:42 #94384 by TwoRazorReign


1) is it fun when some guy takes 1 action and gets 12 minions in play?


Yes.

--That guy playing the deck where 1 action puts 12 minions in play

win rates are ok but this shit isn't a job. Rock/paper/scissors may be perfectly balanced by win rates but the FUN RATE is lacking.


I hear this all the time, that VTES is too random and therefore not fun. I have a very hard time understanding this point. It's, like, a card game. Card games are random. And that's why VTES involves a lot of rock/paper/scissors elements. Randomness, like all card games, is the core feature of VTES. If randomness is really a problem, should shuffling be banned?

If we really want to maximize FUN RATE for VTES, well... we may have a long way to go! :lol:


Not really. Maximizing fun rate is all about a willingness to not be completely negative with all things VTES.

@skimflux

I would argue that vtes is neither competitive or balanced. The majority of people that go to a vtes event are not trying to break the game but rather to have dome fun with friends and you can see it in their deck choices. If we were trying to win above all other considerations it would just be dominate obfuscate stealth bleed forever.


If it's not competitive, then why would people play a supposedly not fun archetype where 1 action puts 12 minions in play? The reason why this archetype is so prevalent is because it's both fun and competitive.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
04 Apr 2019 23:03 - 04 Apr 2019 23:05 #94385 by LivesByProxy

Randomness, like all card games, is the core feature of VTES.


! C I T A T I O N
N E E D E D ¡

:gang: :CEL: :FOR: :PRO: :cap6: Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean :PRO: until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex :AUS:, Obfuscate :OBF:, or Potence :POT: for the current action.
Last edit: 04 Apr 2019 23:05 by LivesByProxy.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
04 Apr 2019 23:34 #94386 by LivesByProxy
To add to the discussion:

Having a goal, encountering resistance, and overcoming that resistance, in my opinion, is the recipe for fun. If a game is too hard (too much resistance) or too easy (too little resistance) then the game becomes frustrating or boring, respectively. I think it is too easy in VTES to adopt a strategy that leads to too little resistance (stealth-bleed / power-bleed for offense, 9+ bounces for defense). Playing less optimal strategies would be voluntarily increasing the difficulty of the game.


Randomness adds an element of surprise, which adds to fun. A linear single-player adventure video game tends to become less fun over time because there are no surprises anymore. Randomness in VTES that contributes to players NOT having fun would be seating order, because of the prior reason.


The setting / world of a game contributes to the fun of many players. The feeling that they are participating in and telling the unfolding story invokes a sense of fun. I think as a game of VTES plays out, it has the potential to tell an interesting story, but so many of the actions are abstract or vague - bleed modifiers in particular.

:gang: :CEL: :FOR: :PRO: :cap6: Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean :PRO: until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex :AUS:, Obfuscate :OBF:, or Potence :POT: for the current action.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 Apr 2019 00:04 #94388 by narpassword

Randomness, like all card games, is the core feature of VTES.


! C I T A T I O N
N E E D E D ¡


2.3. Play Area
To begin, separate your crypt cards from your library cards. Shuffle both decks

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
Moderators: AnkhaKraus
Time to create page: 0.175 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum