question-circle Emerald Legionnaire — First Black Chantry Nerf?

07 Apr 2019 16:31 #94419 by jonathan


Combat guy - Don't bleed me or I will rush you
Stealth bleed predator - How am I supposed to oust you then?
Combat guy - uhm?

Mileage will vary.


It is what a brainless Malk94 player could say, and that is why I believe it is not such a great deck. It is very simplistic and far from the only option.

Also, besides you and your prey, there are 3 other players at the table. I think this conversation is very much on-topic because cards and decks can seem very overpowered if you see the game as a succession of duels.

V:tes is first and foremost a game of social interaction. If you approach it like any other card game, where success is a mix of player's technique, access to powerful cards and strong deck building, I guess you kinda miss the point.

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07 Apr 2019 17:01 - 07 Apr 2019 17:02 #94420 by Mewcat
I think you will find table talk to be mid tier if you play more. High level play is a table of people that know what is going on and not a lot of Jedi mind tricks.
Last edit: 07 Apr 2019 17:02 by Mewcat.

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07 Apr 2019 17:41 - 07 Apr 2019 17:41 #94421 by Kraus

I think you will find table talk to be mid tier if you play more. High level play is a table of people that know what is going on and not a lot of Jedi mind tricks.

Sort of. Still, I find that table talk and deal making is a corner stone of good play even in EC day 2, which is arguably the highest level of competitive play we have at the moment. No jedi mind tricks though - the art of civil persuasion is still important. Good play and understanding of deck capabilities are of course always key.

That being said, it's a skill to identify the highest threat to you personally on the table and act accordingly. Legionnaire and Girls style MMPA seem to be almost on a level where even tag-teaming against them will not net results you're looking for. Table talks can do only so much. I'm guessing people have played enough that they're taking this into account while debating.

Also, going down to compare Dramatic Upheaval and contemporary cards is not ideal because half of the reason why those cards were banned was because it was so unwieldy to do in game. Not only do you VP snipe, you also have to physically pick up your stuff, wait for others to do the same, rearrange everything-- it's such a hassle. There are other cards that have been banned for practical reasons as well as balance reasons as well.

Decks that have to shuffle all the time are problematic (kind of) for the same reason: it's so unwieldy and takes so much time.

Lilith's Blessing could be another card to look out for in TWDA and compare numbers.

"Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!"
-Nalia De-Arnise

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Last edit: 07 Apr 2019 17:41 by Kraus.

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07 Apr 2019 18:49 #94422 by Mewcat
I would argue that the purpose of table talk is to direct the crap players. No crap players, highly devalued.

I have talked about various reasons to be concerned about cards other than just winning (long turns, boring turns, long boring turns), probably in this thread. These are valid. I doubt that the reason for banning dramtic upheaval is players cant stand up and sit back down in a timely manner. We manage to do it in America (while double fisting bacon double cheeseburgers) so everyone should be fine.

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07 Apr 2019 19:20 #94424 by jonathan
Table talk is not Jedi mind trick.
It is about mutual interest. Manipulating the weakest link is an option, but it's level-0 of powerful social interaction.

The best players know what is going on and understand table dynamics. They know when a losing deal is called for, they know that winning a table of five good players all by yourself is very very difficult, they are OK with cross-table ousting someone if it's called for (but won't do it for free).
They understand that destroying their predator is a waste of resources, a VP for their grand-predator who might soon be a more dangerous predator than their current one, a risk of letting their prey become too strong. So yes, they will try to talk, because it's good for both players. It will probably end-up being some kind of peace treaty, which both players will then try to break at the best moment. Or it might be a trade of VPs...

They also know that Pentex, The Unmasking, Emerald Legionnaires and basically everything can be dealt with, even if you don't have the right cards for that in your deck. And the usual way to do that is to offer the right thing to the right person.

I don't like Pentex nor MMPA stuff because they are ubiquitous and make almost any deck instantly better, but I do not think they break the game. I also hate tupdogs decks, which are the worse thing ever when played by bad players, but I would not petition to ban them.

Also, what is or is not boring is very subjective. I'm actually very bored with players who do not play for a game win (eg. Those who play for one VP while not being forced to, or those who play to burn vampires, or those who do not even try to understand the global flow of the game).

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07 Apr 2019 20:13 #94426 by Mewcat
Is your position that the cards don't matter and the multi player aspect will just fix everything?

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