Attempt to Fix (not ban) Events

TryDeflectingThisGrapple wrote:

Dorrinal wrote:

Darby gets it.

Perhaps not.

Last year, I put together a "Helsinki Syndrome" deck - Wormwood vampires to 3 cap with Carver's in play, then drop 4th Cycle and send everything to torpor with hostage counters

Too bad I didn't read the sequencing on 4th Cycle well enough Not to mention that I got 4th Cycled by other players before I could drop my own in both rounds of the tournament.

The block denial Wormwood + Project module worked well enough that I'm actually considering keeping that part to get people to exactly 6 cap with non-poison events. But experience (and this thread) suggest the Imbued-event stigma ensures the deck gets gang-raped.

Playimg wormwood before insisting that you ARENT table poison imbued is alot like govern bleeding with command of the beast and conditioning on a cogged Arika on your preys turn, then saying "i only bled for ten that you cant archon, but this isnt a table threat Arika deck...."

I mean, im more likely to believe other probably-lies than one about imbued and events, just because they need dealt with in a timely fashion.

The coolest event combo i can think of with (limited) use is running Rise of the Nephtablahblahblah in an anarch deck, and the uncoiling, and having convert become a liason before Rise burns.... so shovelface gets unretractable votes

TryDeflectingThisGrapple wrote:

Perhaps not.

Last year, I put together a "Helsinki Syndrome" deck - Wormwood vampires to 3 cap with Carver's in play, then drop 4th Cycle and send everything to torpor with hostage counters

Too bad I didn't read the sequencing on 4th Cycle well enough Not to mention that I got 4th Cycled by other players before I could drop my own in both rounds of the tournament.

The block denial Wormwood + Project module worked well enough that I'm actually considering keeping that part to get people to exactly 6 cap with non-poison events. But experience (and this thread) suggest the Imbued-event stigma ensures the deck gets gang-raped.

I've been dabbling with ideas like... Wormwood to 3 then Chair of Hades the 'nasty' vampires and Wormwood everyone to 3 or less then temptation & Form of Corruption my way to victory... Neither works as awesomely as they sound... Oh and a Wormwood Module in a Spell Of Life-Inner Circles deck so that its easy for my 11-cap Mummies to beat the snot out of the Vampires... (Note: Not just Inner Circles, I do reserve a special place for Saulot and one or two others in there... along with Halim Bey just to make the mummies stealthed...)

self wrote:

Off-the-cuff terrible idea:

what if an event can be cancelled as it is played if all the other methuselahs at the table agree to each pay 1 pool to cancel it? that way if someone tries to play an event that makes the entire table shit its pants, it can be quietly made to go away for a cost.

I had a more detailed explanation but my post didn't take the first time and i can't be bothered to retype it right before bed.

Going this way have 2 effects : it have about the same effect than banning the "poison-events" which is not a good idea IMO.
And for less problematic events, it will lead to 5+ minutes discution each time an event come into play and frankly, nobody wants that.

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

Amenophobis wrote:

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

Inventive Card Design might come up with something that has general utility [] and an ability to interfere with Events.

There could be cheap minions which could have the ability to sacrifice themselves in order to burn events in play. This burn-ability should not be an action (The Unmasking would create a natural barrier here), but rather "instead of taking an action, burn this <minion> to burn an event in play".
You could use the minion for actions and blocking, and if the need arises burn an event with it.

By making the burning of an event not an action, you reduce interaction between minions. It becomes a trivial matter of putting Wider View into almost every deck, one or two copies of Dave-the-Event-Killer and then shredding your crypt until he turns up. Spend a couple of pool (probably 2 or so since you mentioned cheap) and then it's done. Another Silver Bullet that does not increase minion interaction.

Same proposal wearing new clothes. Emperor's New Clothes.

First, the starting premise is that there are too few ways to remove events once they are in play, considered that they can have a rather huge impact on the table. If you compare to Master cards, their powerlevel is generally balanced by cost, uniqueness, drawbacks and/or built-in burn-ability.
Events have none of these counterweigths. It's assumed that because a single event can only ever be played once in a game, it's more or less balanced. Some have the need to have other events in play. Not a big thing. Those that reduce handsize are seldom played apart from Dragonbound, which is a very strong event in the right deck.

There should be more ways to remove events. This has been asked for by players, and I have tried to contribute solutions while part of the VEKN DT.

Second, regarding your perceived silver bullet. A card that can be used to good effect and also removes events is not a silver bullet. You stated that a minion with a "remove event"-ability is a silver bullet. I beg to differ.

What about this version, then:

Druze
Clan:
Cap:
Grp: 5

Sabbat. Black Hand: Druze may remove
himself from the game to burn a Gehenna
event as a +2 stealth -action. Druze takes
1 damage if any Gehenna events are in play
at the end of your minion phase.

Silver bullet? Surely not. Even if the removal was not an action, but just occurred like my other suggestion, it's still no silver bullet.

There is still plenty of minion interaction in the game. If a card that is put into play without a iota of interaction gets burned without interaction, I call this plain and fair.

But I agree, Druze above is maybe the more widely accepted way to do things.
You will notice that he has 2 inherent stealth with his action. You guess it correctly, that is because of The Unmasking. An ability to remove an event as an action without inherent stealth is bad design - we have to take The Unmasking into account. Even 2 stealth might not be enought against dedicated ally decks.

I strongly believe that in VTES, there should be non-master, non-event ways to remove events. If with or without minion-interaction is debatable, I could see arguments for both ways.

Amenophobis wrote:

What about this version, then:

Druze
Clan:
Cap:
Grp: 5

Sabbat. Black Hand: Druze may remove
himself from the game to burn a Gehenna
event as a +2 stealth -action. Druze takes
1 damage if any Gehenna events are in play
at the end of your minion phase.

Good or not, this solution is irrelevant because it is something which is and will be forbidden to people playing according to the official rules.

Timo wrote:

Amenophobis wrote:

What about this version, then:

Druze
Clan:
Cap:
Grp: 5

Sabbat. Black Hand: Druze may remove
himself from the game to burn a Gehenna
event as a +2 stealth -action. Druze takes
1 damage if any Gehenna events are in play
at the end of your minion phase.

Good or not, this solution is irrelevant because it is something which is and will be forbidden to people playing according to the official rules.

There are way more casual VTES players in the world than tournament players. But this is a bit beside the point. The above vampire was used as an example to emphasize my point.