Responsible bleed modifiers

ReverendRevolver wrote:

Kraus wrote:

These are mostly all good and fine ideas, but remember that theres a good reason for protean not having any extra blees cards: its one of the best survival and delivery disciplines in the game.

Protean, while not as screwed as Necro, is the worst off jyhad age discipline(because at least gets to excel at it's themes). It's supposed to be an aggressive combat and utility discipline but literally the only thing it does better than anything else is Strike: combat ends and untap.
Agg hands? Yes, it has 30% of it's card pool do that for one or more blood, and it does stealth for blood, intercept for blood and or drawback, a hunt action for votes later, 4 blood for block fails, a retainer that costs blood and untaps you between turn for more blood, and of course untapping to gain blood once in torpor. Oh, and the permanent or semi permanent effects like press, manuever, agg poke that cost, you guessed it, more blood. I'm sorry, i forgot, you can also turn into a damn fire breathing dragon for a bunch of blood too.

Point is, I love the original idea, and protean has been waiting since 1994 to do something worthwhile that doesn't cost tons of blood. You know, because the 2 best cards are S:ce variants

Sure, it's really blood intensive, and you've got a cool story there (none of which I'm about to argue against ), but... none of that invalidates my point either.

I'm pretty sure that wasn't the intention either, was it? Because competitively there're only a few different cards in each discipline that properly make it shine. Dominate is awesome because of Govern, Conditioning (or any of the three different variants of it), Deflection, Obedience and Mind Rape. With a couple of funnier things thrown in the mix. I'm forgetting some but let's not delve on that.

Protean does Earth Meld, Earth Control, Claws of the Dead (or any of the gadzillion variants of it), Form of Mist, Homunculus (which is obscene in some builds and almost single handedly carries some weight for the discipline), Loki's Gift (actually very useful in some anarch vote builds) -- and (you guessed it) with a couple of funnier things thrown in the mix).

I mean, it's not a combat discpline as such (for deliverance at least), but Gangrel have stuff to back it up (Dog Pack and stuff) to make the Clan mostly using it terrifying. Not the discipline itself probably.

That it doesn't excel in what it's kinda supposed to doesn't contest the fact that it is insane as a delivery method. Thus, I'd be vary about giving it any ousting power. I mean, ever.

More combatty stuff, as you said? I'm all for that! After all, it's supposed to be a bit more self sufficient in combat, isn't it?

But then again, there're always some packages in games where all the utility kinda gets cramped together. Protean does almost everything sub-par (instead of the said delivery and stealth, which it does really, really well), but can kinda pretend to be a lot of things (even fortitude). I find to be one of the most interesting and as-is balanced disciplines in the game at the moment.

And remember that there's always redundancy in every discpline. Protean isn't an exception. It doesn't say that it would warrant bleed bonuses.

Krausedit\\ ATM I'm working on a Summon History Dual Form Gwyedd to see if Dual Form is any good for anything else than copying Stanislava's package. It seems such a fun card.

*giggle*

Don't Frustrate the Beast
cost: 1 blood
This minion is now bleeding your prey.
Reaction cards requiring dominate or auspex cost 1 more blood during this action.

quote: "I redirect your deflection back to you!"


Trailing Horde
cost: 1 blood
Cancel this bleed action and put 2 cards from your ashheap into play, each one of these cards represents a zombie ally with 1 life, 1 strength and 1 bleed. Each zombie must take a mandatory bleed action. Remove all cards representing zombie allies from the game when the last zombie ally has bled.
As above, but put 3 cards from your ashheap into play.

quote: "I brought some friends"

GreyB wrote:

*giggle*
Trailing Horde
cost: 1 blood
Cancel this bleed action and put 2 cards from your ashheap into play, each one of these cards represents a zombie ally with 1 life, 1 strength and 1 bleed. Each zombie must take a mandatory bleed action. Remove all cards representing zombie allies from the game when the last zombie ally has bled.
As above, but put 3 cards from your ashheap into play.

quote: "I brought some friends"

Interesting idea, but as written the acting vampire would not be tainted by NRA, so could bleed again. That seems really powerful. I could bleed for 1, cancel it, crap out a bunch of weenies, and then bleed again without my prey ever even attempting to block or deflecting the original bleed. I could actually keep canceling until I ran out of blood or ash heap and simply flood my prey with zombies.

That being said, it's cool. It uses Giovanni resources, like Dis Pater, in trade for bleed. It might combo nicely Empowering the Puppet King. Overall really solid, once we add some constraints, like "cannot attempt to bleed again this turn."

Tenrin wrote:

Spying Mission already does something sorta similar, canceling a current bleed to add +2 on a future one after your prey is ousted.

There is this problem with Spying mission popping not being optional.
Regards: dude who bled the wrong person for 8.

I mean if your next bleed also gets bounced.. Having a card reduce the bleed when bleeding the wrong person would be pretty useful, and if the card would be actually usable, it would be a good and deserved nerf to bleed bounce.

ps. What about a card that cancels the bleed but gives the option for the same minion to bleed again that turn? EDIT: just needs to be worded so that its not an uber-combo with spying mission

Bloodartist wrote:

ps. What about a card that cancels the bleed but gives the option for the same minion to bleed again that turn? EDIT: just needs to be worded so that its not an uber-combo with spying mission

Tangle Atropos' Hand already does that, and does not seem to see that much play with either Lasombra or Giovanni.

Non-existant user wrote:

Tangle Atropos' Hand already does that, and does not seem to see that much play with either Lasombra or Giovanni.

No it doesn't; Tangle is only playable when someone attempts to block, which is not something that happens when you are being bleed bounced. (Unless there is another stupid rules paradox here)

It might, but the problem bleed bounces are usually something that your grandprey can't deal with, thus the need for this card.