Submission: Celerity Refinement

To be fair, there is potential in just combat card that unlock vampire, and cost and any further untaps cost an additional blood. Like
(some combat effect, like maneuver or press or whatever)
unlock this vampire, and put this card on it. Superior (this card) cost this vampire an additional blood for each.

Still worse than majesty. Perhaps should be as above on superior.

Timo wrote:

jblacey wrote:

How would you feel about something like this:

Speed Perfection

Play before range is determined. Only one Speed Perfection may be play each combat.
: Cards requiring or cost one less blood this combat.
: As above and unlock this vampire.

This card is way over powered !

Free untap usable any number of time in the same turn is IMO a bad thing for the game because it opens too many abuse.

And frankly it makes Zephyr (an already meh card) wallpaper.

Shhh, don't tell this guy about Earth Meld, he might pass out.

Lech wrote:

Shhh, don't tell this guy about Earth Meld, he might pass out.

Lol. That was my thought as well... if you didn't like the card I posted... you would really not like a card that has existed since the first set of the game. That said, I would rather see complaints that I posted something overpowered (which can get tuned down in playtesting) then see something that wasn't playable.

jblacey wrote:

Lech wrote:

Shhh, don't tell this guy about Earth Meld, he might pass out.

Lol. That was my thought as well... if you didn't like the card I posted... you would really not like a card that has existed since the first set of the game. That said, I would rather see complaints that I posted something overpowered (which can get tuned down in playtesting) then see something that wasn't playable.

Well, Earth Meld or Majesty don't belong in a discipline that wrecks S:CE or enables gun combat. Enkidu, Anneke or Matasuntha to name a few still today need Psyche! to combo with their multi rush S:CE. That combat variant crams those two into, if not a two in one, a one-and-a-half in one.

So no, I don't think that direct comparison to Earth Meld works.

Nor is it true that the original idea would be wallpaper. The G4 Inner Circle crypt already packs celerity all around and can wreck face with Flurry of Action. They would for sure put a celerity Freak Drive to good use. What about Grand Ball Toreadors? //shudder

I mean, the two suggestions here are two completely different cards. The other is a super good enabler for combat decks (unlock in combat) and the other for action based stuff (unlock after successful action). They're tailored for different needs. Both are strong.

Lech wrote:

Shhh, don't tell this guy about Earth Meld, he might pass out.

Well, I thought it was not needed to explain why this proposal was way better than Earth Meld (which is already a very good card).

Free and limitless untap are OP when it enables multi action à la Una Freak Show.

Earth meld (and this proposal) works only if you enter in combat so it is obviously less powerfull than free FD. So it is strong in a deck when you want to enter in combat. And then, earth meld ends this combat... So if you want to abuse this card, you have to enter combat and then in order to untap, you have to end this combat... And so, in some decks, you use a combination of earth meld with psyche in order to multi rush.

And this proposal does both effects in the same card with an additional bonus ! So you will have Hektor (for example) rush, untap for free, send the opposing minion in torpor with free celerity cards, rince and repeat. I am not OK with that.

Kraus wrote:

Well, Earth Meld or Majesty don't belong in a discipline that wrecks S:CE or enables gun combat. Enkidu, Anneke or Matasuntha to name a few still today need Psyche! to combo with their multi rush S:CE. That combat variant crams those two into, if not a two in one, a one-and-a-half in one.

So no, I don't think that direct comparison to Earth Meld works.

Nor is it true that the original idea would be wallpaper. The G4 Inner Circle crypt already packs celerity all around and can wreck face with Flurry of Action. They would for sure put a celerity Freak Drive to good use. What about Grand Ball Toreadors? //shudder

I mean, the two suggestions here are two completely different cards. The other is a super good enabler for combat decks (unlock in combat) and the other for action based stuff (unlock after successful action). They're tailored for different needs. Both are strong.

Celerity don't wreak s:ce, at best it's 1 for 1, potence wreak s:ce (as enemy can't play one). And while it would enable Enkidu, it would also enable a lot of other wallpapered vampires, and my version isn't as limitless as you want to make it look like (first cost 0, second 1, third 2).

The original idea isn't bad either, and would be useful in some decks like Corazon/Falchion/Adana bleed&politics on stealth.

Overall the combat card idea sound decent in decks that can block too,as it's not dead weight on the block.

The power level of Earth Meld is way higher than this suggested card, in any form.

Well, I thought it was not needed to explain why this proposal was way better than Earth Meld (which is already a very good card).

Free and limitless untap are OP when it enables multi action à la Una Freak Show.

It's not better than earth meld, it require you to play other combat enablers UNLIKE earth meld that just make you ignore combat.

And you can't just go full una as there are no-repeat actions, and there is limited amount of enter combat actions in the game, and even if it would be good, it's still combat that can be shut down by other combat. You are just against it because your decks don't play enough combat defence and you are not willing to change it (wild guess, btw).

I'm somehow sceptical about claims that multi-rush with the card would bring unfun meta.

Celerity don't wreak s:ce, at best it's 1 for 1, potence wreak s:ce (as enemy can't play one). And while it would enable Enkidu, it would also enable a lot of other wallpapered vampires, and my version isn't as limitless as you want to make it look like (first cost 0, second 1, third 2).

I'm getting a bit side tracked here, so bear with me.

I genuinely do not understand how people say that Immortal Grapple is better against S:CE than Psyche. They enable different kinds of combat, but if you use them in decks that use them best, effectively 'canceling' an enemy card is always better than not giving them option to play them.

Torn Signpost + IG + Disarm: check, you got rid of a vampire. If they get rescued or they have another, they still have the S:CE in hand (in case you don't have unlimited IGs).

.44 + Blur + Psyche: check, you got rid of a vampire (most likely empty now). They burned through a S:CE, which you got past with a Psyche. Now they don't have the S:CE anymore for future.

As for the card suggestions, Earth Meld would for sure be better than the combat version of the suggested card. Earth Meld is a defensive card. The suggested card would be offensive. They work for different deck types.

So I dunno, as said, both suggestions would be strong, but are completely different by design and enable different decks. It really depends on which sorts of archetypes would deserve help more. IMO they could both be printed (granted, with play testing).