Submission: Celerity Refinement

Timo wrote:

You can have a different opinion than someone else without the other being wrong or saying "false statement".

True, but this isn't an opinion. Card draw is a well defined advantage.

For example, I have missed killing an opponent because I didn't draw a third IG and so the one Earth Meld being still in the hand of my opponent prevented me from killing his vampire.

So you are saying you didn't have enough card draw. It sounds like you are supporting my statement.

Both psyche and IG are good ways to avoid S:CE but each one need a special deckbuilding. IG enables you to play your full combat package before range but can't do anything against 2 maneuvres while psyche combat forces you to play permanent combat like .44 or permanent strength in order to be efficient and need to have more psyche than the opponent have S:CE.

I repeat: They are fundamentally different cards. If anything, Pysche is a more "fair" combat card than IG.

And I will expand: For pysche, the combat still plays out as normal. The reason it is "fair" because players are not restricted on the cards that can be played, damage done, etc. I am not debating on which is better.

jblacey wrote:

One of my favorite combos is Dawn Operation + Drawing out the Beast + Earth Meld and depending on my mood: Amaranth.

How is this a combo? They never take DotB damage because of Earth Meld.

kschaefer wrote:

jblacey wrote:

One of my favorite combos is Dawn Operation + Drawing out the Beast + Earth Meld and depending on my mood: Amaranth.

How is this a combo? They never take DotB damage because of Earth Meld.

Ah... they errata-ed the card to the press step. Nice. It use to say "after each round" and S:CE did not stop it.

Guess... I will have to use Dawn Op + Outside the Hourglass or Weather Control + Prevent. Those still work right?

jblacey wrote:

Timo wrote:

You can have a different opinion than someone else without the other being wrong or saying "false statement".

True, but this isn't an opinion. Card draw is a well defined advantage.

That card draw point is fair, as is the fact that you have to basically have more Psyche than they have S:CE.

So yeah, I should've said 'better in most aggressive ousting metas' instead of 'always better' when comparing IG and Psyche. If (as has been the trend) S:CE is mostly just novelty and splashed in ones or twos in a voter deck, I think it's fair to assume people will splash more Psyche in their combat deck than votes will pack S:CE. If people actually use a large amount of S:CE for combat defense, IG works.

I won't go into the "what is fair" department, but I see your point.

Oh, and I tried to make it clear (failed I guess) that the ideal combat packages for both are also different. Psyche would be ideally used with permanent effects or additional strikes (anything played after strike resolution) and IG with a front loaded combat card package (anything before strike declaration). If you play it in the "appropriate" deck Psyche won't lose you combat cards.

But yeah, that's besides the topic. Sorry about that.

Guess... I will have to use Dawn Op + Outside the Hourglass or Weather Control + Prevent. Those still work right?

Yes, but neither give you time to play S:CE yourself, so once again, no offensive combat output shenanigans with S:CE. Unless you're True Brujah and combo Outside the Hourglass and Disarm with Majesty. Still no Earth Meld though.

It can be used action offensively. There is no combat offensive combo in Earth Meld. Unless, once again, if you're Enkidu and Psyche away.

Kraus wrote:

There is no combat offensive combo in Earth Meld. Unless, once again, if you're Enkidu and Psyche away.

That's exactly my point. And it costs 2 cards. And the effect is still worth it so decks using and abusing this combo exist since some times now. And you propose to do both with a little bonus with one card ! No thank you !

Kraus wrote:

It can be used action offensively. There is no combat offensive combo in Earth Meld. Unless, once again, if you're Enkidu and Psyche away.

If - and this is quite a big "if" - you're willing to deal with whatever your opponent wants to throw at you in the initial strike, which could be anything from hand damage for 1 through to Breath of the Dragon, Coma, or their own S:CE...

...and, and this is quite a big "and", you enjoy slightly wonky combos...

...you can potentially hit someone non-fatally, additional strike, Meld, then Disarm. You only need PRO/cel+/pot+, and there's a clutch of vampires in the 7-9 range in group 3.


But... and this is quite a big "but".... you can do it more easily with pot/cel/PRE.


Obviously, in all cases, you have to give up IG for your own strike. But you might make the choice that you're happy to trade rickety combat for some multi-acting options.