Most failed and best implementation of the Lore into Vtes

So, after accidentially getting into a discussion about the lore and sabbat regents in the card suggestion forum I quickly realized how much I still love the lore around this game (and since I'm an old VtM player, I love it a lot) and how fun it is to discuss it, try to see how well it fits with Vtes and to find how it all fits together (or not, as in some cases).

I figured that there must be more people who feel like this, so...

What would you say are your favorite "failed" implementation of the lore card-game wise?
What would you say is the best?

I'm far from a lore-expert, but I do feel that this could be an entertaining thing to discuss
So, let the lore-nerdery commence!

Antediluvians as 11-cap vampires manipulated by Methuselahs? (Augustus, Saulot, Lucian, kind of Advanced Goratrix)

Imbued?

Gehenna events?

Lady Constancia as a GIOVANNI?

Handling of the Antitribu?

The fact that everything was thrown in even across incompatible or silly sourcebooks. True Brujah ? Ok. Nagarajah ? You're pushing it a bit far. Gr 4/5 tremere antitribu including vampires old enough to be cardinal ?

Also, high-level power accessible with inferior discipline, like breath of the dragon.

Also, all prince have the same political leverage. I do believe that Villon or Gustav have a lot more influence than the Prince of Monaco (for those who are not keen on geography, Monaco is an extremely small town)

Also, the grouping system have a simple problem : most gr1/2 vampire are still alive by the time gr5/6 are here. Villon is not supposed to die, same for Etrius.

(I do like the antediluvian as 11cap, because they can either be seen as the methuselah getting his hand dirty, them doing favor to others old vampire, etc ... Please note that they are either young or weakened when put into card format)

Lucian is an antediluvian ?

Ohlmann wrote:

Also, high-level power accessible with inferior discipline, like breath of the dragon.

Lucian is an antediluvian ?

The same, also warghoul.

Lucian is ante, at least it's hinted he is. It's like printing Ilyes from true brujah (THE brujah).

I would like to see entire game done again, but the correct way this time around.

Lech wrote:

Lucian is ante, at least it's hinted he is.

But which one ? The Guruhi one, making Guruhi not a bloodline ? One old antediluvian that have no descendant ? Malkav ?

And yes, the warghoul. The entire VtES is governed by the rule of fun more than by the lore.

Another problem : no gang-up of multiples vampires against one. Not only it's the primary sabbat tactics, it's also the only way to put down some old vampires.

Lech wrote:

I would like to see entire game done again, but the correct way this time around.

That's the thing, there is no one *correct* way to do it. Everyone's going to have their particular interpretation and the way they'd do it if things got to be their way.

There are going to be purists that are going to like the older editions. There are going to be the revisionists who only care about the latest edition and want to ignore previous editions (and Dark Ages). Most people will conveniently discount a couple of sourcebooks (all these are good *except* for X, Y, and Z) - Gehenna doesn't count, or let's discount Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand. It's almost kind of like interpreting or rewriting the Bible - most people think they are right.