Most failed and best implementation of the Lore into Vtes

echiang wrote:

Most people will conveniently discount a couple of sourcebooks (all these are good *except* for X, Y, and Z) - Gehenna doesn't count, or let's discount Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand.

Then again, it's impossible to take every supplement at face value without a lot of interpretation. Berlin by night talk about embracing snakes, while some book explicitly say it can't be done, for the ur-example.

Both Gehenna and Dirty secret of the black hand are prime example of hard to integrate book. For example, the souleater seem to disappear completely, and some of the hypothesis in Gehenna are contradictory (and can appear ridiculous for some peoples that happen to include me)

The worse for me is the fact that there were almost no Tremere Antitribu outside of a single Chantry.
is very, very discriminated in the Sabbat.
That's what the Inquisition is for.

So, Archbishops and Cardinals?
Don't think so.

Brum wrote:

The worse for me is the fact that there were almost no Tremere Antitribu outside of a single Chantry.

The Blood Brother are a by-product of !tremere, so they seem to be at least a bit more than a single chantry.

But, yes, thaumaturgy is not kindly loved, especially black thaumaturgy which both Tremere and !Tremere have done on big scale.

ANd they is the whole problem of them being close to all destroyed between Sabbat and Sabbat war ...

Ohlmann wrote:

Then again, it's impossible to take every supplement at face value without a lot of interpretation.

Agreed. Especially since:

1. Some sourcebooks are intentionally contradictory
2. Some sourcebooks were created at odd times or by odd authors/editors
3. Some sourcebooks used ideas that were later dropped
4. Some sourcebooks had authors who didn't do their homework

Berlin by night talk about embracing snakes, while some book explicitly say it can't be done, for the ur-example.

Don't forget about the Nazi vampires!

Both Gehenna and Dirty secret of the black hand are prime example of hard to integrate book.

Agreed.

For example, the souleater seem to disappear completely, and some of the hypothesis in Gehenna are contradictory (and can appear ridiculous for some peoples that happen to include me)

The Gehenna sourcebook provides 4 entirely different scenarios (which are inherently sort of contradictory to each other).

echiang wrote:

Warning: Spoiler!

Lech wrote:

I would like to see entire game done again, but the correct way this time around.

That's the thing, there is no one *correct* way to do it. Everyone's going to have their particular interpretation and the way they'd do it if things got to be their way.

There are going to be purists that are going to like the older editions. There are going to be the revisionists who only care about the latest edition and want to ignore previous editions (and Dark Ages). Most people will conveniently discount a couple of sourcebooks (all these are good *except* for X, Y, and Z) - Gehenna doesn't count, or let's discount Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand.

It's almost kind of like interpreting or rewriting the Bible - most people think they are right.

But I am right!



But seriously, i would love vtes 2.0 with more minion-phase based gameplay and more interaction on the table, and more room for detail (for example getting rid of default sect, default strength, default bleed, give us 60 pool and make vampires "capacity" between 3-20, introduce group combat and make combat more detailed and fun).

@Ohlmann: Guruhi one, making them full clan.

Imbued?

Tbh I think the main problem with the representation of the hunters (and werewolves and mages and other crosspver creatures) is that they seem done a bit "half-assed", theyre games with a similiar amount of lore as vampire and just crowbaring them into the game is...well....not handled as well as it could have been.... Id have loved to see more done with werewolves...

Also, the !Tremere annoys me so much that I can hardly put it into words.

Its kind of interesting though that no one has yet mentioned the politics system. Sabbar archbishops and camarilla princes actually "voting" in a referendum instead of trying to eat each others faces? Very unlikely.

Also, assamite combat. Enough said.