Most failed and best implementation of the Lore into Vtes

wastaz wrote:

Its kind of interesting though that no one has yet mentioned the politics system. Sabbar archbishops and camarilla princes actually "voting" in a referendum instead of trying to eat each others faces? Very unlikely.

Well, I don't believe the idea is that every titled vampire go in a room and choose a decision. It's more like international politics : does America, China, and all other country vote in a room ? No. Do America and other big player have significantly more political power and are able to force smaller country to do their bidding ? Yes.

"Votes" is more like "political combat" than republic.

wastaz wrote:

Imbued?

Tbh I think the main problem with the representation of the hunters (and werewolves and mages and other crosspver creatures) is that they seem done a bit "half-assed", theyre games with a similiar amount of lore as vampire and just crowbaring them into the game is...well....not handled as well as it could have been.... Id have loved to see more done with werewolves...

The main problem is that imbued cannot be burned in combat by damage, unlike every other minion in the game. They should just die like regular allies.

I would totally like to see playable werewolves, but this would require "faction" card that represent meth (so vampire player would be unable to play werewolf "masters" and vice versa, and werewolf player would pay more for influencing out vampires etc). Same can be said about mages.

Ohlmann wrote:

Well, I don't believe the idea is that every titled vampire go in a room and choose a decision. It's more like international politics : does America, China, and all other country vote in a room ? No. Do America and other big player have significantly more political power and are able to force smaller country to do their bidding ? Yes.

"Votes" is more like "political combat" than republic.

Ah, but then things like bewitching oration, awe, closed session etc start making less sense instead, so even then its weird. And then theres such a spread in the global/local impact of voting cards. Sure, KRC could be a budget resolution for camarilla/sabbat on how much to spend on holding precious resources. But why would sabbat have any chance of affecting an alastor vote? Or camarilla affect a crusade vote?

wastaz wrote:

Ah, but then things like bewitching oration, awe, closed session etc start making less sense instead, so even then its weird.

Closed session is a bit hard, but Awe and Bewitching kind of work. If everybody love you because of presence, they will help you.

Don't forget that title not on table exist. They usually abstain, and can be influenced throught diverses card.

wastaz wrote:

But why would sabbat have any chance of affecting an alastor vote? Or camarilla affect a crusade vote?

Well, for a crusade to be successful, the city must be sabbat controlled, and Camarilla have something to say to that. If you contest some ressources, you must have the political backing to actually get them.

It's more or less the same as America and Iran. Iran can boast, but they do take into account the american position before taking decisions. It's a bit of the same thing : Sabbat can't really take a decision that the Camarilla really don't want, and vice versa.

Also, Camarilla and Sabbat does have connection. To take a RPG example, an archibishop PC of mine have done more than one time lended its influence to Villon, because Villon weren't able to officially intervene, but it was in the PC best interest not to piss Villon off. So, by proxy, Villon were having a bit of Sabbat influence.

Lech wrote:

Same can be said about mages.

Then again, Methuselahs are not above using mage. See Tremere (and I am a firm believer that Tremere still have a lot of influence in the technocraty, but it may be a personal thing)

Lech wrote:

I would totally like to see playable werewolves, but this would require "faction" card that represent meth (so vampire player would be unable to play werewolf "masters" and vice versa, and werewolf player would pay more for influencing out vampires etc). Same can be said about mages.

You know what? That could be really cool, the faction cards could also mess with the winning conditions and starting conditions for the player etc and be some sort of overarching "goal" card. Still, that would be way too much of a game mod to balance, but damn if it wouldnt be cool...

Don't forget that title not on table exist. They usually abstain, and can be influenced throught diverses card.

That, and the Villon anecdote, was actually a really good argument that I hadnt thought about before. Thanks!

Brum wrote:

is very, very discriminated in the Sabbat.
That's what the Inquisition is for.

Incorrect. Yes, the Tremere Antitribu were very distrusted, but they were also very highly valued because of their . In fact, the Sabbat suffered a major blow from the loss of the !Tremere because they lost a major component of their . They were making concerted efforts to recover what Thaumaturgical knowledge they could.

The Inquisition actually heavily uses . They are very distrustful of infernalism though and all forms of dark thaumaturgy (and are vigilant Inquisitors and Thaumaturgists becoming corrupted).

Sabbat Inquisitor (which targets ) was created during 2nd Edition, which treated infernalism, dark thaumaturgy, and thaumaturgy in specific ways. That changed in Revised when infernalism was treated much differently.

So, Archbishops and Cardinals?
Don't think so.

Done because game mechanics and card balance are more important than strictly following canon (which is often arbitrary).

Otherwise half of the Sabbat vampires in the game would all be Lasombra and Tzimisce. And there wouldn't be so many Salubri running around. And most of the Sabbat vampires would all be much lower capacity, and we'd have 3-cap and 4-cap Prisci running around.