What make VtES hard to learn

Hello.

I put here my list of reason why VtES is considered hard to learn, and for each the (often very problematic and often harmful to the game) it could be fixed. It's of course subjective, but I hope to put into light the fact that VtES will not be easy to "fix" and should not be "fixed"

Problem 1 : Vampire (and card in play in general) abilities are abilities and behave wildy differently from the same effect from a regular card. Example : Maris Streck (which can be used multiple time on one action unlike a reaction), Heidelberg (can be performed before mandatory action unlike actions)

Solution : streamline everything into action modifier / reaction / action / combat. Which will lead to a lot of card errated and having a lot of card suddently useless.

Problem 2 : card require to be "needed" to be played. You can't use intercept without stealth or untap a ready vampire. Which don't seem too bad until someone point out that you can't do sup' Read the wind with an untapped vampire or play Spirit touch to get a maneuver. And it is hard to make understand you can use Bewitching oration despite already having every vote on the table, but not Forgotten Labyrinth before somebody try to block. Also, it is the opposite of how work every single other CCG.

Solution : Well, aligning on other CCG. Which mean less deck construction problems, less card jam, less strategy, and a game easier to understand but easier to master.

Problem 3 : Deferendum. "But, it is a diablerie action. Why do you say me there is no action to play the action modifier in while there is an action when I call a KRC ?". I know, I know, there is an internal logic to that, but good luck explaining this. Also, reaction / action modifier and referendum are another big problem. Why can't my other vampire help the one who called the referendum with Dread Gaze, while he can for the referendum of my cross table friend ?

Solution : referendum specific card becoming their own category of card, with specific text (Bewitching being playable only by the one who called the vote, etc ..). And of course, a lot of function in the game change dramatically.

Problem 4 : +1 stealth, +1 strength, and the like. Also, it is not at all shown in the same way on vampire and allies.

Solution : make a new vampire template, with icon for strength (1 most of the time), bleed (1 most of the time), intercept (0 most of the time), stealth (0 most of the time). Torn signpost would be changed or would need an errata.

Problem 5 : Imbued are extremely different.

Solution : streamline them. It need a lot of errata of course. To be honest, the power formatting they use is way better than the vampire one, if only because they are shown as reaction, action modifier, etc ...

Problem 6, partially included in most of the precedent : there is way too much implicit on the card. For example, Dread gaze being a reaction is an implicit way to say "it's only for vote defense" but is pretty hard to catch. Serenading the Kami is a less well known example. Sudden Reversal, Direct Intervention and Rotschreck not being playable during your turn being in my opinion the three worst one, since it's very easy to miss and change fundamentally how thoses cards are used.

Solution : apart from the above mentionned referendum tweak, remove from the rulebook all non obvious restriction (like the OoT master one), and make sure that card have text showing obviously how it is used (Serenading the Kami with "playable only when the action is declared") and more importantly stop create, or even ban, cards that try to be tricky like that.

Please note that thoses are not problem for experienced player or for anyone who take the time to actually learn the game ; but they are the bulk of the issue that make VtES so hard to grasp without significant commitment.

Ohlmann wrote:

Solution : streamline everything into action modifier / reaction / action / combat. Which will lead to a lot of card errated and having a lot of card suddently useless.

Couldn't agree more.

Solution : Well, aligning on other CCG. Which mean less deck construction problems, less card jam, less strategy, and a game easier to understand but easier to master.

That makes weenies much stronger, maybe too much for the game.

Solution : referendum specific card becoming their own category of card, with specific text (Bewitching being playable only by the one who called the vote, etc ..). And of course, a lot of function in the game change dramatically.

+1.

Problem 4 : +1 stealth, +1 strength, and the like. Also, it is not at all shown in the same way on vampire and allies.

Solution : make a new vampire template, with icon for strength (1 most of the time), bleed (1 most of the time), intercept (0 most of the time), stealth (0 most of the time). Torn signpost would be changed or would need an errata.

Don't think it is really a problem, but why not. Torn Signpost would be much less confusing with a standard "once per combat" template than its weird stacking rule anyway.

Problem 5 : Imbued are extremely different.

Solution : streamline them. It need a lot of errata of course. To be honest, the power formatting they use is way better than the vampire one, if only because they are shown as reaction, action modifier, etc ...

By "streamline" do you mean "nuke"?

Problem 6, partially included in most of the precedent : there is way too much implicit on the card. For example, Dread gaze being a reaction is an implicit way to say "it's only for vote defense" but is pretty hard to catch. Serenading the Kami is a less well known example. Sudden Reversal, Direct Intervention and Rotschreck not being playable during your turn being in my opinion the three worst one, since it's very easy to miss and change fundamentally how thoses cards are used.

Solution : apart from the above mentionned referendum tweak, remove from the rulebook all non obvious restriction (like the OoT master one), and make sure that card have text showing obviously how it is used (Serenading the Kami with "playable only when the action is declared") and more importantly stop create, or even ban, cards that try to be tricky like that.

Not sure what is your problem with Serenading the Kami: it is already written on the card, at least on Secret Library. If you are going to give a timing to every effect, OoT masters should get it too: combat for Rötschreck/Frenzy, reaction for Brujah Frenzy/Archon Investigationn reflex for Sudden/DI (all the cards that cancel other cards should be Reflex),...

It's hard for me to relate to someone new to the game. What I find annoying about the complexity of the game is not likely to be what a new player finds annoying, but here's a shot at it, anyway.

New Player
1. Stealth and intercept as a core mechanic.
2. Directed vs. undirected actions and which actions have +0 stealth vs. which have +1 stealth.
3. Action modifiers and reactions - limit of one of each card, timing of when to play action modifiers (as announce, before or after blocks for optimal play, etc.).
4. Combat is far more involved than the rulebook suggests, even the basic rules are not straightforward. For instance, combat ends, dodge, first strike, normal strike, during strike resolution (e.g. Carrion Crows) all constantly trip up players. I know players who have played for 5+ years who don't remember that dodge protects you from combat ends. The prerange timing is poorly defined. When the Bloodform/Weather Control deck came out, I couldn't understand at all why the timing was what it was. Weather Control, by itself, when you could play multiples made no sense where you could WC bomb anyone to oblivion with a 1 cap. If certain cards didn't exist, combat would be much easier, namely Immortal Grapple and Rotschreck, though combat ends just gets that much dumber. Too many other examples to name.
5. No Repeat Action? I haven't seen too many complain about this.
6. How voting works with your vote card being your one card, with there being no set order to voting, with effects like Delaying Tactics messing with votes.
7. No card limits. I'm not going to argue for card limits for this game, but I would never design a CCG with no card limits after playing with and without for various CCGs for many years. At the deck construction level, NCL makes deckbuilding far, far more challenging. At the acquisition level, it makes acquiring the cards you want far, far more challenging (in my experience). V:TES isn't the only CCG to go without card limits, but I'm not aware of any great success for those other games.

For Ongoing Players
1. Mostly irrelevant mechanics that still require explanation - red list/trophy, sterile, withdrawing, blood curse, slave, etc.
2. Exceptions to things people are comfortable with. Breaking the rules is what CCGs are about. Breaking the rules for Bundi was incredibly offensive. I got so tired of explaining that melee weapons didn't work under IG because people just didn't want to believe that IG prevented weapon strikes. Now, the explanation isn't as clean, of course, Stutter-Step getting errata to not work under IG already caused similar problems.
3. Rulings with unclear bases. I don't play Mask of a Thousand Faces anymore because I don't have any sense of what the basis for how it works is. I was incredibly annoyed with LSJ making up the "you must decline to block" bleed bounce rule as all it did was make DI stronger for no other benefit and with no basis I could see.
4. Rules that require a great deal of memory. Can't queue combats. Imbued. "End of ...", "After ...", and maybe some other timing rules, such as when Freak Drive is played in different situations. Etc.
5. Cards with excessive amounts of text, counterintuitive text, or both. I built a Mind of a Killer deck recently ...

For Ongoing Players
1. Mostly irrelevant mechanics that still require explanation - red list/trophy, sterile, withdrawing, blood curse, slave, etc.
2. Exceptions to things people are comfortable with. Breaking the rules is what CCGs are about. Breaking the rules for Bundi was incredibly offensive. I got so tired of explaining that melee weapons didn't work under IG because people just didn't want to believe that IG prevented weapon strikes. Now, the explanation isn't as clean, of course, Stutter-Step getting errata to not work under IG already caused similar problems.
3. Rulings with unclear bases. I don't play Mask of a Thousand Faces anymore because I don't have any sense of what the basis for how it works is. I was incredibly annoyed with LSJ making up the "you must decline to block" bleed bounce rule as all it did was make DI stronger for no other benefit and with no basis I could see.
4. Rules that require a great deal of memory. Can't queue combats. Imbued. "End of ...", "After ...", and maybe some other timing rules, such as when Freak Drive is played in different situations. Etc.
5. Cards with excessive amounts of text, counterintuitive text, or both. I built a Mind of a Killer deck recently ...

This! So many times! I've been playing since forever and these things STILL annoy me. *Especially* #4

ICL wrote:

I was incredibly annoyed with LSJ making up the "you must decline to block" bleed bounce rule...

Nitpick: LSJ didn't make that up; it was always the rule. However, since it wasn't explicit, many players (including me) played it wrong for years. You made your point regardless, carry on.

Ohlmann wrote:

Problem 2 : card require to be "needed" to be played. You can't use intercept without stealth or untap a ready vampire. Which don't seem too bad until someone point out that you can't do sup' Read the wind with an untapped vampire or play Spirit touch to get a maneuver. And it is hard to make understand you can use Bewitching oration despite already having every vote on the table, but not Forgotten Labyrinth before somebody try to block. Also, it is the opposite of how work every single other CCG.

Solution : Well, aligning on other CCG. Which mean less deck construction problems, less card jam, less strategy, and a game easier to understand but easier to master.

the whole game was built around the idea of playing a card to draw a new card. there have to be limits on playing cards or else everybody just has a permanent Heart of Cheating and finds whatever card they want.
it's not that hard for new players to understand when you explain it like this. the only confusing part is learning all the loopholes of cards you can play for no effect just to cycle. but usually that's just about everything besides stealth, intercept, and damage prevention.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather have a cool unique game than a copy of every other CCG