Lilith's Blessing : Propositions for a new text

I thought the topic here was about Lilith's Blessing...

Until such a time as Bahari means something other than you are or aren't,
Lilith's Blessing should be limited. If say we had an event that said a non-bahari vampire you control can take a 20 stealth action to burn a Bahari vampire controlled by your predator or prey. This vampire untaps if that action is successful. Okay, to much, how about all non-Bahari vampires can take a 1 stealth action to enter combat with a Bahari vampire. Or more simply all Bahari are Redlist.

Can we all agree V:TES is a game of attrition? Pool, taps and blood (only in that it can effect the other two) are what we are battling over. The cards that give blood and are not associated with a tap (minion phase), are limited too one blood, with the exeptions of giants blood (once a game), the coven (share), svawdharma (Ravnos),Papillon (city title) and lord of sernity (-able). All other cards require a tap (minion phase). Free blood is bad.

If LB was not put into play and rather played like swadharma it could cost nothing. Limiting it to one blood would work as well. Replacing the word Bahari with Redlist would be fine, even though it allows for exploitation with priority shift, at least its a card slot and action.

@ Sydnelson

Why untap, you seem sold on something for nothing, either 2 blood or one blood and untap. Untap is huge.

kombainas wrote:

Even if it's once per game, imho it is still too strong in torpedoing star vampire decks. I'd suggest adding a delay, e.g. "burn this vampire during your next discard phase". This way the victim could Villein/Golconda/lunge one last time or bounce twice/go for suicide blocking, etc. This would incetivise the victim to interact with others or at least a chance to minimize the damage done (transering out another star would still take significant time, so PTO would still be powerful).

It's is just a suggestion, I really like PTO, have a lot of than here waiting your return but agree, is a powerfull card. I have more decks that will perish for PTO than benefit with it but we can made some adjustment to try take it back, just a playtest with this adjustments can be sure the card is or not overpower.

The limitations to use only one per game, only usable as a blood hunt referendun (vampires can play modifiers like awe, bewitching, voter or reactions like kindred coercio) and younger vampires wll reduce alot the usage and the overpower of that card. Maybe with few more changes like below 10 instead younger vampire and a pool cost instead a blood cost can finnaly bring this card back to business.

I see other comments about PTO, I want to reply all of then but the focus here is Lilith Bleesing. In future if Rule Team consider revise PTO we can talk about it.

ReverendRevolver wrote:

Sydnelson, i like the card a bit too much, it could be overpowered, but its hands down worth testing.

As I said above we need test those changes and see what happens.

Wedge wrote:

@ Sydnelson

Why untap, you seem sold on something for nothing, either 2 blood or one blood and untap. Untap is huge.

When I see this card I see a way to a vampire become a Bahari, the discpline and blood gain is secondary. Due that the vampire that became a Bahari need to be untapped to use all Bahari stuff in the same, like became anarch with Go Anarch and Laibon with Mozambique Allure. The problem is we do not have any Bahari card to use and look for nexts upcoming expansions we do not have this kind of card so soon. Then we look for other 2 big benefits of Lilith thats is gain blood and a discipline card (soul gem turbo decks really like that!). In my opinion if vampire cant act in the same turn he become a Bahari this game mecanics will be very slow and complicate to used and that card will be used only for secondary effects.

ReverendRevolver wrote:

Wedge wrote:

@ ReverendRevolver

What happens when you have vampire with no blood in your minion phase?

Exactly the point, making it a hunt action thats not an action at all is bad buisness. If it made it a hunt action, you could at least theoretically freak drive/firced march/as the crow afterwords. If it taps you, then you're oit a minion a whole turn. Thats rarely a middlexof the road issue, yiu either care not at all because you are doing so good the liliths is a win-more play, orxyou need that minion and tapping is such a bad play that you dont use the card, making it again, useless.

Um, wow! Some of us might think that the ability to bypass being blocked and punched into torpor by, say, Frederick the Weak on a Sports Bike would be more better than the chance to possibly Freak Drive and be forced to hunt again. That is certainly why I find this game so challenging!

Pascal wrote:

I have received a great deal of mails! Thanks to everyone.
Proposition desk is not closed, so feel free to submit your idea.

If the problem with the card is ONLY that it's too easy to trigger with a Villein, then fixes should get straight to the point:

Lilith's Blessing
Master, cost 1 Pool
Put this card in play. As a master phase action, you may tap this card to search your library for a Master: Discipline card and choose a ready non-Bahari vampire you control who began the master phase with no blood. That vampire gains the Discipline card (if any) and 3 blood and become Bahari.

Of course, this will catch vampires who were emptied during the master phase bny other means than Villein cards - for instance, by removing blood via Blood Doll. If players are OK with the use of other means, then the second sentence of card text can read, "As a master phase action, you may tap this card to search library for a Master: Discipline card and choose a ready non-Bhahari vampire you control who has no blood and has not had a Villein card played on him during the current turn."

For a specific problem, it's simplest to make a specific fix.

And it's also a good way to have to do another fix next year.