Lilith's Blessing : Propositions for a new text

ReverendRevolver wrote:

Heres hoping some evil genious or another saves the card(Darby, im looking at you...... )

Thanks for having faith, however unfounded it might be. I have been lurking (to simply observe the "design by committee effort) but seem to have been called out. Here's what I can offer.

FORM FOLLOWS FUNCTION: It's crucial to define, gain consensus and clearly state the existing problem BEFORE proposing solutions, so the right bits can be fixed. I believe the issues with Lilith's Blessing were fourfold: simplicity, scale, timing, and persistence.

SIMPLICITY: Villein for everything and Bless became the only correct answer for newly influenced minions. It removed what should have been interesting decision-making.

SCALE: It added too many blood counters to the table. One player in our group often created 2-3 times more blood than Giant's Blood using only LB. Yes, that one player AVERAGED almost 20 additional blood per game throughout our last day-long playing session. And yes, that scale alone did create additional VP. If Giant's Blood is classified as overpowered, what does that make LB in decks made to exploit it?

TIMING: The effect existing in the Master phase leverages Villein's trifle effect too efficiently (regardless of number of MPA)

PERSISTENCE: Once installed, it remained accessible forever (ultimately contributing to scale).

In my mind, that leads to "what can I do with Bahari keywords and skill grafting without contributing to runaway blood creation?" The best course of action might be to parallel an existing set of mechanics. What if LB looked something like Twilight Camp?

And here, despite my earlier rant on consensus-building, I'll offer up a solution that addresses the (admittedly Darby-centric) problem definition above.

Name: Lilith's Blessing
Cardtype: Master
Cost: 1 pool
Master. Put this card in play with 3 blood. During your untap phase, you may tap this card to choose a ready non-Bahari vampire you control. That vampire becomes Bahari. Search your library for a Master: Discipline card. Move up to 3 blood from this card and that Discipline to the chosen vampire. Burn this card when it has no counters.

For templating purposes, I used Jungle Hunting Ground, which actually gains blood, avoiding any "counter to blood" conversion language. The "Search your......chosen vmapire" language is templated from Path of Death and the Soul.

So, this proposal
- gets away from any Villein-Bless (or Vessel-Bless) interaction and keeps the blood gain in the same window as Hunting Grounds or Jake Washington - timing which seems to be currently well-balanced.
- doesn't require an empty vampire, so it can still be done on new minions (after the same waiting period we see with the current LB). You could get the discipline and add one more blood if you want.
- eliminates scale issues - it's post-cost effect is the same as Svadharma or the Coven (the turn it's played) and if used that way, it's gone.
- can remain permanently accessible if you're not harvesting blood, empowering use of "Bahari" and discipline grafting.
- doesn't create any option to use the effect in a combat or response to something like Shattering Crescendo, which I would see as a huge problem (e.g., effectively creating 3 damage prevention for any vampire)
- it remains playable multiple players.

Pascal has seen this proposal, since I submitted as a random voice in the design-by-committee deluge B-)

Darby.

TryDeflectingThisGrapple wrote:

FORM FOLLOWS FUNCTION: It's crucial to define, gain consensus and clearly state the existing problem BEFORE proposing solutions, so the right bits can be fixed...

This is the most important thing anyone has ever said here and needs to be stickied at the top of the card suggestion forum.

Dorrinal wrote:

TryDeflectingThisGrapple wrote:

FORM FOLLOWS FUNCTION: It's crucial to define, gain consensus and clearly state the existing problem BEFORE proposing solutions, so the right bits can be fixed...

This is the most important thing anyone has ever said here and needs to be stickied at the top of the card suggestion forum.

Actually, im cool stickying this and closing the thread. I may try testing Darbys idea, but it so far it seems to be the best solution typed in this thread. I vote for that.

ReverendRevolver wrote:

Actually, im cool stickying this and closing the thread. I may try testing Darbys idea, but it so far it seems to be the best solution typed in this thread. I vote for that.

Closing the thread? Better idea: leave the thread open. If Darby's proposal proves so tremendously popular that no further significant discussion is required, that will be proved by the lack of further discussion.

This is the most important thing anyone has ever said here and needs to be stickied at the top of the card suggestion forum.

Discussion about what exactly is wrong with LB raged for quite a while. Pascal did not make any official statement (ir I missed it) about the exact reason... Darby just made a (quite) educated guess.

However, in-depth analysis was great, did enjoy it!

kombainas wrote:

This is the most important thing anyone has ever said here and needs to be stickied at the top of the card suggestion forum.

Discussion about what exactly is wrong with LB raged for quite a while. Pascal did not make any official statement (ir I missed it) about the exact reason... Darby just made a (quite) educated guess.

However, in-depth analysis was great, did enjoy it!

Hes good at that. And analyzing the game.

I think pascal kept quiet so this whole community acid testccould be tried as scientifically as possble, without adding more variables. I think we all agree that easily running 4 11 caps and paying only 1 pool total for them is an issue.

Im not sure of any other problems wotlrth bwnning the card....