combat rebalancing

brettscho wrote:

I think the point was that you see Immortal Grapple more often than say Death Seeker because more vampires are able to effectively use it. Difficult to argue against that, regardless of one's opinion on what "Corner Case" means when applied to card games.

Yeah, I know what he means, Brett, and what the point was, but corner case does not describe it since it doesn't mean 'less frequent'. If I use Gabrin (a very popular vampire in the TWDA but even if it was Karmenita Yoryari) and I want my Carrion Crows to hit then I will include Hall of Mirrors to help make that so. This is not a corner case card. If I use the third ability of Dreams of the Sphinx to survive 2 Anarch Revolts in play (or any other scenario that would utilize that ability) that is the meaning of corner case.

talonz wrote:

OP has presented solutions without defining the problems.

Fail.

Please don't jump in on page 7 of a thread to nitpick the OP. There have been other discussions going around about rebalancing the game and combat, which this thread is using add a starting point.

To clarify: "corner case" refers to a situation in a game, not to the utility of a card. When specific in-game factors directly affect the utility of a given card, this is "corner case." The card is not "corner case." More accurately, the card has limited utility when those specific in-game factors are not present. In other words, the card is "useless."

In terms of how many vampires can use "Death Seeker", it's indeed not "corner case", it's actually "edge case" since only !Salubri can play it. And "The Jones" would be "corner case" under the same terms as Vampires with serpentis are more numerous than !Salubri, but way less vital to the strategies used by those vampires and thusly falls outside of "normal parameters".

In terms of usability both DS and IG are staple cards and The Jones is corner case.

Ban the Jones and perhaps a few people are mildly irritated.
Ban Death Seeker and people with !Salubri combat decks are incredibly annoyed.
Ban IG and you piss off a large percentage of all VTES players, you'd get a way bigger fallout than the banning of Anthelios.

Feel free to discus this even more, the original topic is ridiculous anyways.

GreyB wrote:

In terms of how many vampires can use "Death Seeker", it's indeed not "corner case", it's actually "edge case" since only !Salubri can play it. And "The Jones" would be "corner case" under the same terms as Vampires with serpentis are more numerous than !Salubri, but way less vital to the strategies used by those vampires and thusly falls outside of "normal parameters".

Again, "corner case and "edge case" only apply to in-game situations. These terms need an operation (the game) with defined parameters (the rules and cards) to be performed. A corner case is one in which multiple factors affect the utility of a card (eg, a vampire in torpor (factor 1) is being diablerized (factor 2) and the minion performing diablerie, who has 1 blood (factor 3), plays lost in crowds (factor 4) and the controller does not have any useful combat cards in hand (factor 5). The Deadliest Sin would be very useful in this corner case). An edge case is one where a maximum or minimum limit was reached (eg, someone played Giant's Blood, wherein the maximum limit of 1 Giant's Blood per game is reached. Giant's Blood now becomes useless in this edge case).

TwoRazorReign wrote:

Again, "corner case and "edge case" only apply to in-game situations.

Thats just plain wrong. They apply in whichever context they are used, not the only context you want it to be used.

Concerning banning cards, the context that should be used is the game as a whole including all players and existing decks in the world. Not a super focus on individual games. In that context, "Death seeker" is an edge case and IG is the status quo where those "type" of cards are concerned.

In an "in-game" context, not a single card is corner or edge case... Anything is possible, any card can be used as, or become a staple card for a deck. So your context doesn't make much sense.