file Rules update suggestion: Diablerie and Disciplines

07 Oct 2017 14:48 - 07 Oct 2017 14:48 #83749 by Kraus
Rules update suggestion: Diablerie and Disciplines

Suggestion: When diablerizing, there should be no need to fetch a master discipline card from your deck for the capacity effect - instead, when diablerizing an older vampire, the diablerist can gain a capacity and a level of any disciplines the victim had at superior. (tracked through special 'tokens')

What does this mean then?

First of all, this gives more room for the very thematic rule to be applied in games. It's a cool rule, but it's in effect way too rarely.

When a player needs to add Master: Disciplines in a deck, it often makes the deck competetively worse. The effects of those cards are minor, and take up deck slots for masters.

So, to balance this out, a diablerist could gain a level of a discipline through diablerie, but it is restricted by the disciplines of the victim. If you really want to have a spesific Discpline, by all means add a Master of it into your deck. We'd see more instastances of fun interactions though with my suggestion.

It also works very well thematically. Those with better WoD knowledge might give more insight into this however. I'm not an expert by any means.

How should we mark those disciplines then? With counters. People have already tinkered with card size and shape reminders of which disciplines are in effect in whichever situation, be it Agent of Power, Field Traning or Infernal Pact. It wouldn't be hard to make these for print, and eventually into the new starter pack or core set. They would be excellent promotional prizes, or something that could be sold in separate packs; 1 of each 'discipline remainder token' for 10$/10e/8£?

This is more of a thematic suggestion, but would definitely have some in-game impact as well. Not for the worse though, would it? At least those roleplayers who could be getting into the game get to immediately experience fan-favorite effects and cool things from the game they already know, adding to the 'wow' effect.

"Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!"
-Nalia De-Arnise

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Last edit: 07 Oct 2017 14:48 by Kraus.
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07 Oct 2017 15:11 #83751 by Jannu
We are tampering with core rules of the game and doing such thing there should be very good reasons do to so. That being said, this idea is interesting. It is rather rare to include a master discipline card in a deck and this idea of yours is reasonable way to have interesting situations in the game.

On the downside, diableries are rather rare occurance in the game. And in some cases diableries happen with no intent of the diablerist to survive. That leaves us a rather rare situation where diablerie happens in the game and the diablerist survives. Is there reason to change the game's core rules just for this minor situation in the game?

Also, would that make decks diablerising vampires without fear of blood hunt do something too crazy? I don't know, perhaps not but it is a thing to consider.

All in all, I think the idea is good and could give some interesting moments for the players but in the end I am inclined not to change basic rules of the game.

:POT: Potence, if it doesn't work, you just aren't using enough :POT:

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07 Oct 2017 15:50 #83754 by Kraus
My main reasoning for changing this core mechanic is twofold:

Firstly (1), we're seeing a very core mechanic in the game unfold very rarely. It is, however, a very thematic inclusion in the game, stemming from the source material. Thus it would speak volumes to have it occur in the game more often, because--

-- (2) that would possibly increase the 'cool' factor of the game for those probable newcomers and casual players we would be interested in cheating into the game come the launch of V5. The diablerie and it's benefits are a prime example of a very cool thing in the source material new players familiar with it would find very intuitive to see in play. Without sacrificing valuable deck slots in Master cards we would see these stories from the roleplaying sessions play out more often.

It would need quite thorough play testing to be sure.

To make it simple, I wouldn't keep both diablerie rewards (both this option, and the Master fetch), simply for simplicity's sake, but rather have this suggestion for a diablerie reward and keep the master cards as is (only master cards) to separate the theme more: the MASTER, you, Methuslah, can decide what to teach your lackies, but the rewards of diablerie are strictly dependant on the victim's abilities and skills. A more intuitive, dynamic experience with more shared ground with the source material.

I'm not thinking about balance too much here, but rather the new players and their possible inclusion. In that light, I think this could be added to the list of changes warranting play testing for the good of the game.

"Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!"
-Nalia De-Arnise

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07 Oct 2017 19:13 #83755 by Blooded Sand
Personally I would prefer to be able to choose, either a disc from the food vamp that the food vamp had at SUP, or a disc card from the library that the meth had prepared in the deck. If I cannot select disciplines, it makes a number of niche decks unplayable (see tariq et al)

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08 Oct 2017 08:55 #83760 by elotar
My view on this topic is that the game will benefit if we remove cardless diablerie and blood hunt referendum. :P

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08 Oct 2017 09:44 #83765 by Ankha

Rules update suggestion: Diablerie and Disciplines

Suggestion: When diablerizing, there should be no need to fetch a master discipline card from your deck for the capacity effect - instead, when diablerizing an older vampire, the diablerist can gain a capacity and a level of any disciplines the victim had at superior. (tracked through special 'tokens')


They could be standard discipline cards (with a sleeve of a different color).

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