Rules update suggestion: Diablerie and Disciplines

Bloodartist wrote:

elotar wrote:

So, you are saying there was no such example in Lorwyn?

I don't think so, I went through Lorwyn cards, assuming you meant the set and not the block.
There are far later examples though like I mentioned. Latest from last spring.

When I mentioned it, I meant the block. But that's because all 4 parts were designed to be cohesive. (Whereas other things that were t2 legal at various points lacked much of this, like counter-top goyf being legal for a short span before kamigawa rotated...) While early Lorwyn didn't have tons of multi token craziness, the heavy wither push made things like that happen, even having token on token creatures (garuuks 3/3 beasts, bitter blossom faeries with the uncommon things that pumped faeries, etc)

Of course, card size tokens would be what we're talking about, not additional beads, which does get rough some times (is that the dead hookers life, a pathos counter, or a corruption counter?)

I'm hoping it's clear to all participants of the discussion at this point that we're talking about card size 'counters' or 'tokens', whereas we could just as well write it as:

"When diablerizing an older vampire the diablerist may choose a discipline the burnt vampire had at superior level. She then learns a level of that discipline and her capacity increases by one. You can use a reminder card (supplied in the core set) to represent this."

We'll just remove the 'token' or 'counter' word. It's all good.

Anyways. With that sorted out, a thought occured to me, and I'd love to get some feedback for this from those who are familiar with the lore:

Should a vampire with superior level of a given discipline be able to gain capacity?

An example:

Horatio Ballard diablerizes Lucinde Alastor . There are no extra levels of disciplines Horatio would be able to learn from Lucinde. Should Horatio be able to grow in capacity, given the lore? How would that feel?

Of course there's the balance issue, but I'd love to concentrate on the fluff and lore aspect of it first, focusing on the RPG element.

Kraus wrote:

There are no extra levels of disciplines Horatio would be able to learn from Lucinde. Should Horatio be able to grow in capacity, given the lore? How would that feel?

Overtly effin' complicated.
Especially in a game that is already very very complicated.
KISS! (Keep It Simple, Stupid!)

Benefits gained by this system?
None spring to my mind.

No need to change the current system to "reflect the RPG more".

Beg to differ mate, as already stated the opening post. Im asking this from a roleplaying perspective. Not vtes at this point. KiiP - Keep it in Perspective.

Anyways, its a suggestion, not a demand, and what im trying to do here is explore the horizon. No harm in that, is there?

The rules team is the judge of whats to come anyways.

Anyone with roleplaying background or insight in lore?

hoo boy, do i have serious Opinions on this subject.

I'm a colossal fan of the source material, and have been playing in the same Masquerade game since '98. I went to the Requiem LARP for about 2 years (and honestly believe that Requiem and the NWoD is mostly a better setting than the classic one). I'm super looking forward to V5, and so far I'm enjoying many of the changes that are being made to the mechanics and the lore of the game.

But... If I wanted to roleplay, I'd just play the roleplaying game that already exists.

I while I like your idea overall, I don't see how it makes V:tes's current mechanics any more sound, easier to understand, or less complicated. Though it would be a boon to many of the Bloodlines who don't have decent access to their specialty Disciplines.

Honestly, I've already come out as In Favor of cutting various 'theme' and 'lore' related things like Independent vampires not having titles and having something that is essentially the same but mechanically different, for no other reason than "They were cool in the books." I honestly don't get it, because I've never read any of the books and I don't have any attachment to the characters outside of V:tes.

Same thing goes for Antitribu clans. The very concept should be hucked in a dumpster and set on fire, because it doesn't add much in the way of value to the game in my eyes. I've taught about ten people how to play the game in the last five years, and just about every one of my pupils has tried to sneak in an antitribu card, legitimately not realizing that they're two different clans.

"But self!" you say, "How will people tell the difference between the Warrior bloodline of the Ventrue that composes most of the Sabbat Ventrue antitribu and other, garden variety Ventrue?"

Easy. Those are the Ventrue with Auspex instead of Presence, and are by and large, in the Sabbat.

So to wrap things up, sometimes there needs to be an abstraction of the background material and concepts (The entirety of Vampire: The Masquerade lore) to make the derivative game (Vampire: The Eternal Struggle) mechanically sound and smooth flowing.

self wrote:

So to wrap things up, sometimes there needs to be an abstraction of the background material and concepts (The entirety of Vampire: The Masquerade lore) to make the derivative game (Vampire: The Eternal Struggle) mechanically sound and smooth flowing.

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