Rules update suggestion: Diablerie and Disciplines

ReverendRevolver wrote:

elotar wrote:

Define "early". Easily within the last 10 years kamigawa, Ravnica, all 4 parts of Lorwyn, and especially time spiral had multiple variants of counters on permanent, as cratures, and out if play cards. I quit MTG, but I'm still confused.

OK, let's take Lorwyn, as a set I've even played draft once. Please, provide an example of several types of different counters, which are supposed to be on one card.

I think elotar has a point. Different kinds of counters on one card is confusing. Even if it wasn't confusing, VTES already involves way too many counters. There's even a video out there poking fun at this (see 3:28 mark):



So yeah, the game already has too much going on with counters. It doesn't need required special tokens for each discipline.

TwoRazorReign wrote:

So yeah, the game already has too much going on with counters. It doesn't need required special tokens for each discipline.

True, but if the counters would be represented by cards I think it would be fine. It could be likened to auras (enchant creature) in magic the gathering, for which there is no limit how many you can have on a single creature and they are a staple in any modern Magic sets, even the very latest.

The situation is slightly different compared to magic as vampires in VTES are more 'important' since all actions are being played through them, and having egg basket vampires with lots of cards on them is relatively commonplace.

elotar wrote:

OK, let's take Lorwyn, as an set I've even played once. Please provide an example of two types of different counters, which are supposed to be on one card.

The first example I can think of offhand is commander 2013, which featured number of level up creatures from rise of the eldrazi, meaning they could have level up counters and +1/+1 counters on them. Time spiral, which was mentioned earlier, featured reprint of Icatian javelineers with its javelin counter.

Amonkhet set from april 2017 features planeswalker Gideon of the trials, who can turn himself into a creature and thus have both loyalty counters and +1/+1 counters (even though its somewhat unlikely).

Bloodartist wrote:

...having egg basket vampires with lots of cards on them is relatively commonplace.

There's also a legacy of excessive amounts of cards on minions being a bad thing, leading to too much upkeep and accounting. See Imbued and Events. Probably best to not add more types of counters.

TwoRazorReign wrote:

There's also a legacy of excessive amounts of cards on minions being a bad thing, leading to too much upkeep and accounting. See Imbued and Events. Probably best to not add more types of counters.

Its not like the original suggestion adds anything extra, since you can already play discipline cards on those vampires.The same discipline cards they would be getting off the diablerie.

Thanks @Bloodartist for pointing it out in my place - the card form counters wouldn't really add more than a card or two per game to the field.

If even that.

TwoRazorReign wrote:

Bloodartist wrote:

...having egg basket vampires with lots of cards on them is relatively commonplace.

There's also a legacy of excessive amounts of cards on minions being a bad thing, leading to too much upkeep and accounting. See Imbued and Events. Probably best to not add more types of counters.

This is a can of worms on a whole different scale, I'm sure you agree.

Krausedit\\ So yeah, I'm talking about counters here definitely in card form, as the old anarch and curroption counters. Very similar to the Master: Disciplines, but aesthetically different and coming off the decks.